Tomini tang with ich! HELP!

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

Hi, I Recently I added a Tomini (about 3inches) tang to my 40gal Dt. I have 2 clownfish in it also and seem to have been doing great but did develop a couple little white specs on their fins. The Tomini also seemed to be doing fairly well until last night when I noticed him covered in small white spots with the most noticeable amount on the top of his head. I believe it is ich but is there a chance of this being velvet? I left the Tomini In the Dt over night as he was swimming around still and looked good. Just as a precaution I set up quarantine tank. This morning I woke up to the Tomini laying on the sand bed leaning against the glass, the fish was breathing sightly . I immediately netted him out and he gave very little fight not moving until he was In the net. I placed him in a temp/ph matched freshwater dip for 3 minutes then I placed him in a dish of tank water and acclimated him to my quarantine. The white spots seemed of mostly disappeared. I then placed him in the Qt (temps at 80F, 1.024 Sg, 5.5 gallon tank) the fish seemed to have livened up a decentamount and has been able to stay upright, breathing fairly hard (probably because he’s stressed) and swam around a decent amount before resting on the bottom. The tank was filled with mainly brand new saltwater and a little tank water, the tank has a filter with bio cubes from the main tank, heater and air stone. Also all sides are painted black and have a couple PVC pieces for hiding space. I added the correct dosage of Paraguard. Just wondering if I did everything correct or if there is anything I can improve to increase the chance of this little guy making it. Thanks!

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

Hi, I Recently I added a Tomini (about 3inches) tang to my 40gal Dt. I have 2 clownfish in it also and seem to have been doing great but did develop a couple little white specs on their fins. The Tomini also seemed to be doing fairly well until last night when I noticed him covered in small white spots with the most noticeable amount on the top of his head. I believe it is ich but is there a chance of this being velvet? I left the Tomini In the Dt over night as he was swimming around still and looked good. Just as a precaution I set up quarantine tank. This morning I woke up to the Tomini laying on the sand bed leaning against the glass, the fish was breathing sightly . I immediately netted him out and he gave very little fight not moving until he was In the net. I placed him in a temp/ph matched freshwater dip for 3 minutes then I placed him in a dish of tank water and acclimated him to my quarantine. The white spots seemed of mostly disappeared. I then placed him in the Qt (temps at 80F, 1.024 Sg, 5.5 gallon tank) the fish seemed to have livened up a decentamount and has been able to stay upright, breathing fairly hard (probably because he’s stressed) and swam around a decent amount before resting on the bottom. The tank was filled with mainly brand new saltwater and a little tank water, the tank has a filter with bio cubes from the main tank, heater and air stone. Also all sides are painted black and have a couple PVC pieces for hiding space. I added the correct dosage of Paraguard. Just wondering if I did everything correct or if there is anything I can improve to increase the chance of this little guy making it. Thanks!

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

Hi, I Recently I added a Tomini (about 3inches) tang to my 40gal Dt. I have 2 clownfish in it also and seem to have been doing great but did develop a couple little white specs on their fins. The Tomini also seemed to be doing fairly well until last night when I noticed him covered in small white spots with the most noticeable amount on the top of his head. I believe it is ich but is there a chance of this being velvet? I left the Tomini In the Dt over night as he was swimming around still and looked good. Just as a precaution I set up quarantine tank. This morning I woke up to the Tomini laying on the sand bed leaning against the glass, the fish was breathing sightly . I immediately netted him out and he gave very little fight not moving until he was In the net. I placed him in a temp/ph matched freshwater dip for 3 minutes then I placed him in a dish of tank water and acclimated him to my quarantine. The white spots seemed of mostly disappeared. I then placed him in the Qt (temps at 80F, 1.024 Sg, 5.5 gallon tank) the fish seemed to have livened up a decentamount and has been able to stay upright, breathing fairly hard (probably because he’s stressed) and swam around a decent amount before resting on the bottom. The tank was filled with mainly brand new saltwater and a little tank water, the tank has a filter with bio cubes from the main tank, heater and air stone. Also all sides are painted black and have a couple PVC pieces for hiding space. I added the correct dosage of Paraguard. Just wondering if I did everything correct or if there is anything I can improve to increase the chance of this little guy making it. Thanks!

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

Hi, I Recently I added a Tomini (about 3inches) tang to my 40gal Dt. I have 2 clownfish in it also and seem to have been doing great but did develop a couple little white specs on their fins. The Tomini also seemed to be doing fairly well until last night when I noticed him covered in small white spots with the most noticeable amount on the top of his head. I believe it is ich but is there a chance of this being velvet? I left the Tomini In the Dt over night as he was swimming around still and looked good. Just as a precaution I set up quarantine tank. This morning I woke up to the Tomini laying on the sand bed leaning against the glass, the fish was breathing sightly . I immediately netted him out and he gave very little fight not moving until he was In the net. I placed him in a temp/ph matched freshwater dip for 3 minutes then I placed him in a dish of tank water and acclimated him to my quarantine. The white spots seemed of mostly disappeared. I then placed him in the Qt (temps at 80F, 1.024 Sg, 5.5 gallon tank) the fish seemed to have livened up a decentamount and has been able to stay upright, breathing fairly hard (probably because he’s stressed) and swam around a decent amount before resting on the bottom. The tank was filled with mainly brand new saltwater and a little tank water, the tank has a filter with bio cubes from the main tank, heater and air stone. Also all sides are painted black and have a couple PVC pieces for hiding space. I added the correct dosage of Paraguard. Just wondering if I did everything correct or if there is anything I can improve to increase the chance of this little guy making it. Thanks!

nereefpat · Jun 3, 2019

Yes there is a chance that it's velvet.

I don't think paraguard will work as well as copper for ich or velvet.

You will also need to treat the clowns, by the way.

John Snider · Jun 3, 2019

Dierker0000 said:
Hi, I Recently I added a Tomini (about 3inches) tang to my 40gal Dt. I have 2 clownfish in it also and seem to have been doing great but did develop a couple little white specs on their fins. The Tomini also seemed to be doing fairly well until last night when I noticed him covered in small white spots with the most noticeable amount on the top of his head. I believe it is ich but is there a chance of this being velvet? I left the Tomini In the Dt over night as he was swimming around still and looked good. Just as a precaution I set up quarantine tank. This morning I woke up to the Tomini laying on the sand bed leaning against the glass, the fish was breathing sightly . I immediately netted him out and he gave very little fight not moving until he was In the net. I placed him in a temp/ph matched freshwater dip for 3 minutes then I placed him in a dish of tank water and acclimated him to my quarantine. The white spots seemed of mostly disappeared. I then placed him in the Qt (temps at 80F, 1.024 Sg, 5.5 gallon tank) the fish seemed to have livened up a decentamount and has been able to stay upright, breathing fairly hard (probably because he’s stressed) and swam around a decent amount before resting on the bottom. The tank was filled with mainly brand new saltwater and a little tank water, the tank has a filter with bio cubes from the main tank, heater and air stone. Also all sides are painted black and have a couple PVC pieces for hiding space. I added the correct dosage of Paraguard. Just wondering if I did everything correct or if there is anything I can improve to increase the chance of this little guy making it. Thanks!

I went through this with my yellow tang. Unfortunately he didn’t make it. Lesson learned. I always quarantine my fish now. Especially tangs who are notorious for ich and velvet. I put any new fish in my QT for at least a month and use cupramine from seachem as a copper treatment. If you’re going to treat the tang u should probably treat the clowns too. And leave your DT fallow for at least 6-8 weeks

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

John Snider said:
I went through this with my yellow tang. Unfortunately he didn’t make it. Lesson learned. I always quarantine my fish now. Especially tangs who are notorious for ich and velvet. I put any new fish in my QT for at least a month and use cupramine from seachem as a copper treatment. If you’re going to treat the tang u should probably treat the clowns too. And leave your DT fallow for at least 6-8 weeks

Yea I’m hoping for the best. I am going to add the clowns to the QT tonight. I’m going to start quarantining any new fish that I add. The problem is just how easy it is to introduce theses bad things into your tank!

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

nereefpat said:
Yes there is a chance that it's velvet.

I don't think paraguard will work as well as copper for ich or velvet.

You will also need to treat the clowns, by the way.

Oh boy I hope not. I don’t have any copper on hand at the moment so I’ll try to get some cupramine tonight. Would it be ok to add the cupramine to the Paraguard in the tank as I have already dosed Paraguard. Or do I do a 100% water change or so?

DLHDesign · Jun 3, 2019

First; welcome to R2R! Glad you've found us (though I wish it was under better circumstances that you are making your first topic, of course).

Pretty much impossible to say whether it's ich or velvet without either more description - or better yet; a picture. It certainly sounds like there is a problem with the fish, so getting into a freshwater dip and then into the QT tank is the right move, for sure. Well done!

Just a heads-up that 40gal is a small tank for a tang of any size to be in. It will constantly be under stress due to a lack of available space to swim, which may cause it near-constant health issues.

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

DLHDesign said:
First; welcome to R2R! Glad you've found us (though I wish it was under better circumstances that you are making your first topic, of course).

Pretty much impossible to say whether it's ich or velvet without either more description - or better yet; a picture. It certainly sounds like there is a problem with the fish, so getting into a freshwater dip and then into the QT tank is the right move, for sure. Well done!

Just a heads-up that 40gal is a small tank for a tang of any size to be in. It will constantly be under stress due to a lack of available space to swim, which may cause it near-constant health issues.

Thanks. This reason is why I decided to make a account and post. I do know the tang is in a smaller tank than it should be but my plan is only to keep it as a juvenile. Thanks!

John Snider · Jun 3, 2019

Dierker0000 said:
Oh boy I hope not. I don’t have any copper on hand at the moment so I’ll try to get some cupramine tonight. Would it be ok to add the cupramine to the Paraguard in the tank as I have already dosed Paraguard. Or do I do a 100% water change or so?

I'm not familiar with paraguard so do some research on that. The cupramine treatment is easy but just be ready to keep ur fish in quarantine for 2 months or so. YouTube has some great teaching videos on copper treatment. I would look at some of those before starting treatment cause the directions are kinda vague.

DLHDesign · Jun 3, 2019

In terms of treatment; if we assume it is ich, Paraguard will not eliminate that. It may help suppress it some, but more likely it'll just help the fish not get a secondary infection from the wounds caused by the parasites. That's not nothing, but it doesn't help if your goal is to eliminate the parasite completely.
Take a look at the first post here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
That will outline your two basic options - try to eliminate ich in your tank now and always (eradication), or just live with it and keep it under control (management). Decide which you want to aim for so that you have a clear plan to move forward with, is my main advice.

John Snider · Jun 3, 2019

Why do the tang police always have something to say. Jeez

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

DLHDesign said:
In terms of treatment; if we assume it is ich, Paraguard will not eliminate that. It may help suppress it some, but more likely it'll just help the fish not get a secondary infection from the wounds caused by the parasites. That's not nothing, but it doesn't help if your goal is to eliminate the parasite completely.
Take a look at the first post here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
That will outline your two basic options - try to eliminate ich in your tank now and always (eradication), or just live with it and keep it under control (management). Decide which you want to aim for so that you have a clear plan to move forward with, is my main advice.

Yea I’m not sure what to shoot for. Obliviously eradicating the ich is better because then you never have to worry about new or stressed fish. But that’s easier said to done to keep you ya k completely free. Especially with how it can enter through coral, inverts ect making quarantining hat much more complicated. Then for living with ich you always run the risk.

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

John Snider said:
I'm not familiar with paraguard so do some research on that. The cupramine treatment is easy but just be ready to keep ur fish in quarantine for 2 months or so. YouTube has some great teaching videos on copper treatment. I would look at some of those before starting treatment cause the directions are kinda vague.

I have done some research and the paraguard does say it will kill ich/velvet ect. At least I have this for temporary treatment giving me time to go pick up some copper. I will need the cupramine for new dish anyways. [emoji106]

DLHDesign · Jun 3, 2019

John Snider said:
Why do the tang police always have something to say. Jeez

When dealing with fish disease, understanding the needs of the fish in order to reduce stress - and thus keep the immune system strong - is important. If someone were to say, "I live in an apartment and my pet elephant isn't doing so well...", the obvious answer is - "don't keep an elephant in an apartment", right?
Tangs aren't elephants and a 40g tank isn't an apartment, per-se. But to fail to recognize that the environment is not ideal for the animal is a failure to care for the animal properly. Can environmental stress be reduced - sure; good water conditions, top-grade foods, low bio-load, and other such methods are all ways to reduce stress to the point where it's possible to keep a fish that requires space to swim in a smaller tank. None of those will eliminate the stress induced by the small space, however - they merely keep other factors from causing stress on top of that stress. The only thing that can solve the space stress is not keeping the fish in a small space. When people ask, "My fish isn't healthy; what can I do?", a very common first step to treatment is "reduce its stress so that the problem doesn't get worse". That's not being "tang police" - that's helping to resolve the issue through proper treatment procedures.
Now; when someone says "I have a 40g with three happy, healthy tangs!" and people come out saying that the tank is too small - THAT is "tang police". If the fish are healthy and seem to be acting happy, then there's no really defensible reason at that time to be calling them out on their stocking choices - because obviously they can make it work.

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

DLHDesign said:
When dealing with fish disease, understanding the needs of the fish in order to reduce stress - and thus keep the immune system strong - is important. If someone were to say, "I live in an apartment and my pet elephant isn't doing so well...", the obvious answer is - "don't keep an elephant in an apartment", right?
Tangs aren't elephants and a 40g tank isn't an apartment, per-se. But to fail to recognize that the environment is not ideal for the animal is a failure to care for the animal properly. Can environmental stress be reduced - sure; good water conditions, top-grade foods, low bio-load, and other such methods are all ways to reduce stress to the point where it's possible to keep a fish that requires space to swim in a smaller tank. None of those will eliminate the stress induced by the small space, however - they merely keep other factors from causing stress on top of that stress. The only thing that can solve the space stress is not keeping the fish in a small space. When people ask, "My fish isn't healthy; what can I do?", a very common first step to treatment is "reduce its stress so that the problem doesn't get worse". That's not being "tang police" - that's helping to resolve the issue through proper treatment procedures.
Now; when someone says "I have a 40g with three happy, healthy tangs!" and people come out saying that the tank is too small - THAT is "tang police". If the fish are healthy and seem to be acting happy, then there's no really defensible reason at that time to be calling them out on their stocking choices - because obviously they can make it work.

I completely agree! Do do everything I can to keep my fish healthy and happy with normal water tests, water changes (every two weeks) will switch to weekly when have more fish. I also make sure I have the proper foods for their diet and provide an array of foods they enjoy. When my tang was in the 40gal it seemed very happy swimming around and picking at the rocks [emoji1]

DLHDesign · Jun 3, 2019

Dierker0000 said:
I have done some research and the paraguard does say it will kill ich/velvet ect.

They make claims that it COULD help, but there is no science to back that up. Research has not shown that the active ingredients have a substantial and repeatable impact on the parasite population. Again; it helps to keep the fish strong as it helps to prevent bacterial infection, so it's not nothing. That's where the "garlic is a cure" comes from as well, however - garlic can sometimes (occasionally) encourage a fish to eat, and eating helps to build the immune system, so from that light; garlic is just as much a "cure" for ich as anything else. But that's a very different statement than saying that garlic (or Paraguard, or a host of other products on the market) will eliminate the parasite from the environment. That's where copper, TTM, and CP come into play - they are the only things known to eliminate ich completely when administered correctly.

Dierker0000 said:
At least I have this for temporary treatment giving me time to go pick up some copper. I will need the cupramine for new dish anyways. [emoji106]

If you are picking up copper, I would suggest Coppersafe or Copper Power. Both of these are chelated copper - as opposed to Cupramine, which is ionic copper. Chelated copper is generally easier to use and more gentle for the fish (as much as any poison can be). Whatever you get, be sure to get the correct test kit for the copper you get: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

Dierker0000 · Jun 3, 2019

DLHDesign said:
They make claims that it COULD help, but there is no science to back that up. Research has not shown that the active ingredients have a substantial and repeatable impact on the parasite population. Again; it helps to keep the fish strong as it helps to prevent bacterial infection, so it's not nothing. That's where the "garlic is a cure" comes from as well, however - garlic can sometimes (occasionally) encourage a fish to eat, and eating helps to build the immune system, so from that light; garlic is just as much a "cure" for ich as anything else. But that's a very different statement than saying that garlic (or Paraguard, or a host of other products on the market) will eliminate the parasite from the environment. That's where copper, TTM, and CP come into play - they are the only things known to eliminate ich completely when administered correctly.

If you are picking up copper, I would suggest Coppersafe or Copper Power. Both of these are chelated copper - as opposed to Cupramine, which is ionic copper. Chelated copper is generally easier to use and more gentle for the fish (as much as any poison can be). Whatever you get, be sure to get the correct test kit for the copper you get: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

Sounds good! Thanks!