JaimeAdams
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Stang67
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I am so glad this worked out.
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jessezm
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This would not have happened if we hadn't all banded together to share important details and information. I appreciate so much the people who have chimed in because those little details were the crumbs that led us to where we ended up.
For instance, if the 216 phone number hadn't been posted, I may not have been able to connect all the dots. When I called that number I must have been just a random number that popped up since he never gave it to me. So his first mistake was calling me back. That's when I got the story about how he had given his login info to poor Jim Bayles, who had nothing to do with this whole sordid affair. But I digress.
So here is the story: @Og_Reef , the original poster of this VERY THREAD WE ARE IN, is in fact an active saltwater hobbyist. He's had an account here for at least since last year, and some people have had fine and totally positive interactions with him.
HOWEVER, like many of us, things have gone south for him since the casinos are closed down due to the Covid Pandemic and @Og_Reef is not working right now, and apparently having trouble paying his bills. That may also explain why he's playing high stakes poker right now as well. In fact he is currently supposed to be in a game tonight, but has been banned from his group because of all this. Again I digress...
So you all know most of the first part of the scam - a few of us were taken for a few hundred to over a thousand bucks because we didn't follow the VERY CLEAR RULES about not using venmo, and only using protected transactions. I'll be the first to say my selfishness in thinking I had a great deal got the better of my good sense. That and a few beers in on a friday night with nobody but my fish to talk to. and my dog but he's sick of me being around with all this work from home stuff.
Anyways it didn't take us long to figure out the deal was sketchy, and before too long, two of us realized we had paid for the same thing, with no chance of it being a misunderstanding, and a third realized the same.
So this thread got started up and people started dishing. Interestingly enough, the Jim Bayles thing had serious legs. Even though it sounded like a BS story, we had to pursue it because over on the Ohio reefer FB pages which I joined so I could post in, several people chimed in with bad experiences or indicating Jim was our guy. I mean literally, people messaged me and said "Jim's your guy" LOL.
Well Jim was not our guy. He was A guy, who happened to have an admittedly earned bad rep in some circles. But he was eager to talk to me and clear his name from the start (after a few colorful rejoinders). Jim actually tried to clear his name before, putting up a post on FB in the Saltwater Scammers group (fascinating, I highly recommend), inviting any and all to provide evidence of their gripes. I posted there too, this morning, when I was convinced he may be behind it. I of course have recanted since then. Jim and I talked on the phone a few times today actually, and I quite enjoyed talking to him. In my final aside about Jim, I will say that one person who felt he had been wronged by him months ago received the rest of his refund this morning. So eager was he to be left out of this. I have apologized on behalf of all of us to him, and he has graciously accepted.
Back to the story. The other interesting thing that happened last night is that someone on the northeast ohio saltwater group messaged me and said she had read my post, and had a pretty uneventful interaction with someone named Elijah, and because I had mentioned on my post that the person with the account Og_reef who I ended up talking to on the phone had given me the name Elijah, maybe it was connected. Plus, she said he lives close to Jim. Well the last name she gave me was totally different from the one the person gave me on the phone. But it led to a facebook account of someone involved in the local reef community there. So naturally, I messaged him.
Let me pause here an apologize to everyone because I am a very wordy person. But I don't have the patience at the moment to color this whole post with screenshots of these conversations, which I'm sure would make it much more engaging. I'm going to hit POST now and continue typing.
For instance, if the 216 phone number hadn't been posted, I may not have been able to connect all the dots. When I called that number I must have been just a random number that popped up since he never gave it to me. So his first mistake was calling me back. That's when I got the story about how he had given his login info to poor Jim Bayles, who had nothing to do with this whole sordid affair. But I digress.
So here is the story: @Og_Reef , the original poster of this VERY THREAD WE ARE IN, is in fact an active saltwater hobbyist. He's had an account here for at least since last year, and some people have had fine and totally positive interactions with him.
HOWEVER, like many of us, things have gone south for him since the casinos are closed down due to the Covid Pandemic and @Og_Reef is not working right now, and apparently having trouble paying his bills. That may also explain why he's playing high stakes poker right now as well. In fact he is currently supposed to be in a game tonight, but has been banned from his group because of all this. Again I digress...
So you all know most of the first part of the scam - a few of us were taken for a few hundred to over a thousand bucks because we didn't follow the VERY CLEAR RULES about not using venmo, and only using protected transactions. I'll be the first to say my selfishness in thinking I had a great deal got the better of my good sense. That and a few beers in on a friday night with nobody but my fish to talk to. and my dog but he's sick of me being around with all this work from home stuff.
Anyways it didn't take us long to figure out the deal was sketchy, and before too long, two of us realized we had paid for the same thing, with no chance of it being a misunderstanding, and a third realized the same.
So this thread got started up and people started dishing. Interestingly enough, the Jim Bayles thing had serious legs. Even though it sounded like a BS story, we had to pursue it because over on the Ohio reefer FB pages which I joined so I could post in, several people chimed in with bad experiences or indicating Jim was our guy. I mean literally, people messaged me and said "Jim's your guy" LOL.
Well Jim was not our guy. He was A guy, who happened to have an admittedly earned bad rep in some circles. But he was eager to talk to me and clear his name from the start (after a few colorful rejoinders). Jim actually tried to clear his name before, putting up a post on FB in the Saltwater Scammers group (fascinating, I highly recommend), inviting any and all to provide evidence of their gripes. I posted there too, this morning, when I was convinced he may be behind it. I of course have recanted since then. Jim and I talked on the phone a few times today actually, and I quite enjoyed talking to him. In my final aside about Jim, I will say that one person who felt he had been wronged by him months ago received the rest of his refund this morning. So eager was he to be left out of this. I have apologized on behalf of all of us to him, and he has graciously accepted.
Back to the story. The other interesting thing that happened last night is that someone on the northeast ohio saltwater group messaged me and said she had read my post, and had a pretty uneventful interaction with someone named Elijah, and because I had mentioned on my post that the person with the account Og_reef who I ended up talking to on the phone had given me the name Elijah, maybe it was connected. Plus, she said he lives close to Jim. Well the last name she gave me was totally different from the one the person gave me on the phone. But it led to a facebook account of someone involved in the local reef community there. So naturally, I messaged him.
Let me pause here an apologize to everyone because I am a very wordy person. But I don't have the patience at the moment to color this whole post with screenshots of these conversations, which I'm sure would make it much more engaging. I'm going to hit POST now and continue typing.
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jessezm
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Ok I'm back, had to feed the fish.
So where was I? Oh yes, so I reached out to this Elijah character on Messenger, basically saying are you the guy who I talked to yesterday on the phone from r2r? OHHHHH I forgot to mention how that whole thing ended. First we talked for like 11 minutes on the phone, and then he followed up with screenshots of Jim's FB profile, me grilling him via text cause his story didn't quite add up based on other users' accounts, and finally him saying I'm not putting up with this BS and blocking me.
So anyways I messaged the guy with a suspiciously unique and same first name as the guy from earlier who pointed the finger at Jim, and this FB Elijah said yes I'm in the hobby, but - and this is important - I've never had a R2R account, and that wasn't me you talked to. But oh by the way, this jim bayles guy, I've had one interaction with him (and he shares his conversation via screen shot), but I know he's a known scammer around these parts. Well that matches with what other people have been saying, but kinda funny how he says the person on R2R who called himself Elijah is not him.
To summarize that circuitous paragraph, FB Elijah says he's not R2R Elijah, but they both know Jim is a bad guy. Got that?
So back to the drawing board. Venmo offers up bubkis in terms of help and at this point I know we're all out our money. But I'm just mad. I'm mad as hell. But in a calm collected sort of way.
We've still got a few leads and avenues to pursue though. The two additional threads we had to start tugging at to unravel this whole ugly xmas sweater were the Venmo payments and the accounts that showed up there, and of course getting some help from our awesome #MODS who I'm convinced knew everything right from jump street and just fed me bread crumbs to keep the entertainment going since they're bored at home like the rest of us with nothing better to do (that's a joke in case anyone things I'm casting aspersions). But they had the keys to unlocking the other doors that were necessary to open which finally led to a confession.
Okay quick breather. Don't worry I'll BRB (as the kids say)
So where was I? Oh yes, so I reached out to this Elijah character on Messenger, basically saying are you the guy who I talked to yesterday on the phone from r2r? OHHHHH I forgot to mention how that whole thing ended. First we talked for like 11 minutes on the phone, and then he followed up with screenshots of Jim's FB profile, me grilling him via text cause his story didn't quite add up based on other users' accounts, and finally him saying I'm not putting up with this BS and blocking me.
So anyways I messaged the guy with a suspiciously unique and same first name as the guy from earlier who pointed the finger at Jim, and this FB Elijah said yes I'm in the hobby, but - and this is important - I've never had a R2R account, and that wasn't me you talked to. But oh by the way, this jim bayles guy, I've had one interaction with him (and he shares his conversation via screen shot), but I know he's a known scammer around these parts. Well that matches with what other people have been saying, but kinda funny how he says the person on R2R who called himself Elijah is not him.
To summarize that circuitous paragraph, FB Elijah says he's not R2R Elijah, but they both know Jim is a bad guy. Got that?
So back to the drawing board. Venmo offers up bubkis in terms of help and at this point I know we're all out our money. But I'm just mad. I'm mad as hell. But in a calm collected sort of way.
We've still got a few leads and avenues to pursue though. The two additional threads we had to start tugging at to unravel this whole ugly xmas sweater were the Venmo payments and the accounts that showed up there, and of course getting some help from our awesome #MODS who I'm convinced knew everything right from jump street and just fed me bread crumbs to keep the entertainment going since they're bored at home like the rest of us with nothing better to do (that's a joke in case anyone things I'm casting aspersions). But they had the keys to unlocking the other doors that were necessary to open which finally led to a confession.
Okay quick breather. Don't worry I'll BRB (as the kids say)
Don’t make excuses it’s because of point of sale’s like this guy they have to make rules we should follow to protect our selves. People like that make life just that much harder. My Alzheimer’s stricken grandmother lost her savings to scammers that never got caught and hid behind a phone or a computer and will do it again most likely to someone we know. They are such cowards and if ever where real men and did this face to face they would get dropped. The problem is there is never enough punishment when they do get caught they just do it again. Glad you got your money’s back hopefully the lesson will be learned and that person won’t strike again. I am proud of the reefing community for helping you. That’s not something you would never see in most groups
jessezm
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So two threads. First the Venmo account:
@Ogreefer was the account on venmo who we had paid. The owner of that account has since, hilariously, changed it to @jimbayles82. I commend him for that bit of hubris, and I am thankful that Jim found it as funny as I did when I shared it with him. But BEFORE that happened, a few of us had noticed a funny pattern of payment to and from a group of people, including @Ogreefer. They included terms that some quick googling led me to realize they were playing poker together. Same people, most with regular names. SEARCHABLE names. More searching revealed a very interesting coincidence (?) - While our FB Elijah guy's page was private with no searchable friends, on his girlfriend's page lo and behold, you could look through all of her friends, and who shows up but the same name and FACE as someone in that group playing poker and paying each other on Venmo.
Okay here I have to pause again for a recap of my previous PSA, because apparently somebody took it upon themselves to contact this guys GF and offer what was interpreted as a pretty threatening message. First of all, there is enough of that online to go around and I understand this is a pretty emotional thing and folks get pretty exercised. BUT DONT THREATEN WOMEN ONLINE. or anywhere. ever. I don't even know if it was someone on here but I did give the name I was given to the mods just in case. Even if it was only sent to her because the person couldn't send it to Elijah, the subtext of threatening a woman is ALWAYS there online and we should always be aware of that in our interactions online and in person.
Okay, off my soap box and back to the program.
So we've made a connection between Elijah, through his GF, and someone who has been paying and being paid by @Ogreefer on venmo, the person who has our money at this point still. So I reach back out to FB Elijah on Messenger and ask, "Who is J**** V****" (leaving his name out of this, as i don't have proof he's involved, only suspicion).
"he's a friend" was the response.
I then send screenshots of the Venmo transactions between the scammer, @Ogreefer, and his friend.
"your friend knows the scammer," says I, "he has our money, and your friend knows who he is"
Enter said friend into our chat, which starts to get interesting:
Says he: "what's this all about? Eli says some guy I know owes you some light?"
Eli: Yeah, you've got to help them find this guy - I told you about it last night, they are dragging me through the dirt!
JV: Well that's messed up, surely we can get to the bottom of this. Those payments are for an online poker game we've got going. people are from all over, so I don't know who this @Ogreefer guy is.
Me: well you've paid him a bunch of money and vice versa, color me skeptical.
Him: you know what, we can figure it out I bet, I will have SH (name omitted because he is a stand up friggin guy who went out of his way to resolve this), the administrator of our poker game, call you later today. He may be able to figure out who this @Ogreefer is. BTW, he's lost a crap ton of money in our games lately.
Mhm. that foots.
Also from JV, a very good question: by the way, what the heck kind of light costs $600?
We end the conversation with a promise of a phone call from their site administrator, SH. I put about .$0000001 worth of stock in that promise, but that haypenny turned out to be worth a lot.
Time to crack a beer and turn the air on, it's getting stinky sitting here in my chair. Next up, an aside about tying up loose ends on the ownership of the R2R account and the role of the mods. back in a flash
@Ogreefer was the account on venmo who we had paid. The owner of that account has since, hilariously, changed it to @jimbayles82. I commend him for that bit of hubris, and I am thankful that Jim found it as funny as I did when I shared it with him. But BEFORE that happened, a few of us had noticed a funny pattern of payment to and from a group of people, including @Ogreefer. They included terms that some quick googling led me to realize they were playing poker together. Same people, most with regular names. SEARCHABLE names. More searching revealed a very interesting coincidence (?) - While our FB Elijah guy's page was private with no searchable friends, on his girlfriend's page lo and behold, you could look through all of her friends, and who shows up but the same name and FACE as someone in that group playing poker and paying each other on Venmo.
Okay here I have to pause again for a recap of my previous PSA, because apparently somebody took it upon themselves to contact this guys GF and offer what was interpreted as a pretty threatening message. First of all, there is enough of that online to go around and I understand this is a pretty emotional thing and folks get pretty exercised. BUT DONT THREATEN WOMEN ONLINE. or anywhere. ever. I don't even know if it was someone on here but I did give the name I was given to the mods just in case. Even if it was only sent to her because the person couldn't send it to Elijah, the subtext of threatening a woman is ALWAYS there online and we should always be aware of that in our interactions online and in person.
Okay, off my soap box and back to the program.
So we've made a connection between Elijah, through his GF, and someone who has been paying and being paid by @Ogreefer on venmo, the person who has our money at this point still. So I reach back out to FB Elijah on Messenger and ask, "Who is J**** V****" (leaving his name out of this, as i don't have proof he's involved, only suspicion).
"he's a friend" was the response.
I then send screenshots of the Venmo transactions between the scammer, @Ogreefer, and his friend.
"your friend knows the scammer," says I, "he has our money, and your friend knows who he is"
Enter said friend into our chat, which starts to get interesting:
Says he: "what's this all about? Eli says some guy I know owes you some light?"
Eli: Yeah, you've got to help them find this guy - I told you about it last night, they are dragging me through the dirt!
JV: Well that's messed up, surely we can get to the bottom of this. Those payments are for an online poker game we've got going. people are from all over, so I don't know who this @Ogreefer guy is.
Me: well you've paid him a bunch of money and vice versa, color me skeptical.
Him: you know what, we can figure it out I bet, I will have SH (name omitted because he is a stand up friggin guy who went out of his way to resolve this), the administrator of our poker game, call you later today. He may be able to figure out who this @Ogreefer is. BTW, he's lost a crap ton of money in our games lately.
Mhm. that foots.
Also from JV, a very good question: by the way, what the heck kind of light costs $600?
We end the conversation with a promise of a phone call from their site administrator, SH. I put about .$0000001 worth of stock in that promise, but that haypenny turned out to be worth a lot.
Time to crack a beer and turn the air on, it's getting stinky sitting here in my chair. Next up, an aside about tying up loose ends on the ownership of the R2R account and the role of the mods. back in a flash
jessezm
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You have some catch up reading to do...
bmbpka
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Wow I can’t believe this actually came out positive! Awesome work! I Kind of wish I would have told you privately now about the GF and Venmo connections. Never thought someone would message her.
jessezm
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So about those loose ends. Sure, many, including Jim multiple times, have pointed out that site admins should be able to solve this pretty quickly with some simple internet forensics. Well yes and no. The key, in my mind, was not only proving once and for all that FB Elijah = R2R Elijah = @Og_Reef = @Ogreefer, but doing so in such a way that would be so devastatingly clear that even the lazyiest small town Police department, having been provided all this infomation on a silver platter, would be willing to say sure, I guess I can help.
Or at the very least, being able to present this to Elijah (to the fourth power) and have him come to the very same conclusion.
So I dropped a few bucks on one of those reverse phone number search sites. for the phone number I originally contacted R2R Elijah on, the only thing that came up was "EJ" and no address, history or anything. Glad it only cost me $14.95. What can I say, in for a penny, in for a pound.
But I did get an address for FB Elijah. And for some of @Ogreefer's Venmo compatriots. All clustered around NE Ohio. Boom. So dots are out there just wanted to be connected. Next, I was in conversation with the #MODS this whole time, who were in fact keeping abreast of developments. What I needed to do was catch FB Elijah in a lie, and in a lie I caught him. He told me, with absolute certainty, that he has NEVER been a member of R2R. Well lo and behold, the mods were able to give me this juicy bit:
1) the name and email attached to @Og_Reef's account on R2R had been changed within the past week, curious timing, eh? and previously the names an email matched that of FB Eligjah
2) the IP address used to access the account matched the physical address I found on my reverse lookup for FB Elijah
3) The owner of that property appears to be a relative of FB Elijah, and
4) starting VERY recently, like today or within the past couple days, @Og_Reef has been using a proxy to hide his location/IP address.
So to me, that was pretty damning evidence. But how to apply the right pressure without blowing a gasket?
Story at 11. Okay more like in a few minutes. I just finished that beer.
Or at the very least, being able to present this to Elijah (to the fourth power) and have him come to the very same conclusion.
So I dropped a few bucks on one of those reverse phone number search sites. for the phone number I originally contacted R2R Elijah on, the only thing that came up was "EJ" and no address, history or anything. Glad it only cost me $14.95. What can I say, in for a penny, in for a pound.
But I did get an address for FB Elijah. And for some of @Ogreefer's Venmo compatriots. All clustered around NE Ohio. Boom. So dots are out there just wanted to be connected. Next, I was in conversation with the #MODS this whole time, who were in fact keeping abreast of developments. What I needed to do was catch FB Elijah in a lie, and in a lie I caught him. He told me, with absolute certainty, that he has NEVER been a member of R2R. Well lo and behold, the mods were able to give me this juicy bit:
1) the name and email attached to @Og_Reef's account on R2R had been changed within the past week, curious timing, eh? and previously the names an email matched that of FB Eligjah
2) the IP address used to access the account matched the physical address I found on my reverse lookup for FB Elijah
3) The owner of that property appears to be a relative of FB Elijah, and
4) starting VERY recently, like today or within the past couple days, @Og_Reef has been using a proxy to hide his location/IP address.
So to me, that was pretty damning evidence. But how to apply the right pressure without blowing a gasket?
Story at 11. Okay more like in a few minutes. I just finished that beer.
jessezm
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The final tidbit of delightful serendipity came at about this time, as I was pondering what to do with the final nail our quiet hero, @revhtree, provided me with that user info. Scammers be warned, THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
lol anyways, I'm doing something not related to this for a change today when I get an incoming call from an Ohio number.
Yes, this is Jesse?
Jesse, hi, this is SH (remember him?), I administer a high stakes poker group online and a few of my members have been lighting me up asking me to help you identify a person they say has been scamming you, like on some fish site?
Me: (internally: oh boy, how do I sum up this entire hobby, explain what's happened, without sounding bat*** insane, all within a 2 minute elevator speech without losing the guy? Seriously, you try it. Try it at work with someone who thinks "reefer" is a not so oblique allusion to some cheech and chong movie).
Out loud now: yes, this is jesse. thanks for calling. Me and a few people on a national aquarium hobby website with online discussion forums and for sale/wanted ads got taken for a ride by one @Ogreefer who has been part of your poker group and exchanging funds with Eli and JV. I have reason to believe it's Eli, and he may be working with JV or someone else in your group.
SH: I hate to hear that. Text me the details and I'll get to the bottom of it. I am holding $7,500 of their funds in deposit and I will make you and your pals whole with their money if that proves to be the case. I know JV's dad and have for years, so if this is true and JV is involved, he will want to know about it. This kind of behavior is completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Do you have proof it's them?
Me: (internally - to be a poker star/administrator you have to be a person of superior intellect and a nose for bluffing, because this fellow believes my insane story that he just caught wind of without me having to go into the ridiculous level of detail I've strung you all along for)
out loud: I have proof it's Elijah, I suspect he's working with someone, I think that person is JV but I have no proof, and it could totally be someone else, since JV is paying him and vice versa. but I think @Ogreefer is Eli %100.
Spoiler alert: Wrong! only 50%....
Me (continued): Thanks for your time, I'll send you all the details via text and you let me know whatever else you need.
SH: Once I verify your story, I will send you your money back.
(cont....)
lol anyways, I'm doing something not related to this for a change today when I get an incoming call from an Ohio number.
Yes, this is Jesse?
Jesse, hi, this is SH (remember him?), I administer a high stakes poker group online and a few of my members have been lighting me up asking me to help you identify a person they say has been scamming you, like on some fish site?
Me: (internally: oh boy, how do I sum up this entire hobby, explain what's happened, without sounding bat*** insane, all within a 2 minute elevator speech without losing the guy? Seriously, you try it. Try it at work with someone who thinks "reefer" is a not so oblique allusion to some cheech and chong movie).
Out loud now: yes, this is jesse. thanks for calling. Me and a few people on a national aquarium hobby website with online discussion forums and for sale/wanted ads got taken for a ride by one @Ogreefer who has been part of your poker group and exchanging funds with Eli and JV. I have reason to believe it's Eli, and he may be working with JV or someone else in your group.
SH: I hate to hear that. Text me the details and I'll get to the bottom of it. I am holding $7,500 of their funds in deposit and I will make you and your pals whole with their money if that proves to be the case. I know JV's dad and have for years, so if this is true and JV is involved, he will want to know about it. This kind of behavior is completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Do you have proof it's them?
Me: (internally - to be a poker star/administrator you have to be a person of superior intellect and a nose for bluffing, because this fellow believes my insane story that he just caught wind of without me having to go into the ridiculous level of detail I've strung you all along for)
out loud: I have proof it's Elijah, I suspect he's working with someone, I think that person is JV but I have no proof, and it could totally be someone else, since JV is paying him and vice versa. but I think @Ogreefer is Eli %100.
Spoiler alert: Wrong! only 50%....
Me (continued): Thanks for your time, I'll send you all the details via text and you let me know whatever else you need.
SH: Once I verify your story, I will send you your money back.
(cont....)
Elitecorals
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So the hellfire Indo torch still available? @ og_reef
....
....
jdadole
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Sooo... I'm pretty new here but I have been following this thread for a few days now. It's like reading a crime novel! And I'm glad you guys were able to get your money back!
jessezm
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- Georgia
So I'm still reeling from this out of body experience talking to an actual person saying they will get our money back. Mind you, since about some time saturday or sunday I have been about 100% certain we are never seeing our money again. This was more about shutting down a scam that other people were clearly getting caught up in as well. So a glimmer of giddy hope is starting to re-emerge when I get a message from JV after we have an exchange with me being incredulous and confronting him about how he could not know who @Ogreefer was, given all their payments to each other:
Him: If this is Eli, I just don't understand. He wouldn't steal. he has a great job, a great GF. I'm going to confront him.
Me: do that
Him: Eli isn't responding to my calls, dude what's going on? He won't answer me and I don't know what to believe, but I hope you get your money back.
It's around this time that I have contacted the two other members here about getting photo and documentary evidence together showing what we were taken for so that I could provide this all to SH. SH said they would be banned from the group for good. Eli because he was a scammer and JV because even without proof he was in on it, he did bring the scammer to the group.
I'm now in a text exchange rattling this whole thing off and providing the proper context for the cold hard evidence we are about to give SH when another Ohio call comes in. Okay who is it this time?
Him: If this is Eli, I just don't understand. He wouldn't steal. he has a great job, a great GF. I'm going to confront him.
Me: do that
Him: Eli isn't responding to my calls, dude what's going on? He won't answer me and I don't know what to believe, but I hope you get your money back.
It's around this time that I have contacted the two other members here about getting photo and documentary evidence together showing what we were taken for so that I could provide this all to SH. SH said they would be banned from the group for good. Eli because he was a scammer and JV because even without proof he was in on it, he did bring the scammer to the group.
I'm now in a text exchange rattling this whole thing off and providing the proper context for the cold hard evidence we are about to give SH when another Ohio call comes in. Okay who is it this time?
