Transition from cupramine to coppersafe

[kevsqn]

hi. I just want to ask if its ok to do 100% water change to get rid of the cupramine immediately?
So ill just put the fishes in a bucket with qt water first. Then ill do 100% water change.
Ill just match the salinity and temp with the 100% water change.
I plan on doing 100% so that theyll be treated immediately and not wait for carbon or cuprisorb to get all the copper which could take 1 week.
By the way. The flame angel made it until 0.42 copper. And then it literally almost died. The powerhead was blowing him all over the place. So i did water changes. And fortunately he slowly recovered.
@Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[hybridazn]

That would be fine, I'd run carbon or cuprisorb for a few days after as well just be to safe

 

[kevsqn]

That would be fine, I'd run carbon or cuprisorb for a few days after as well just be to safe

Thanks. But id like to run coppersafe immediately. Or should i wait couple days.

 

[Maritimer]

I'm assuming that your fish / quarantine likely still have ich on them / inside?

100% water change and refill should get you there - my primary concern would be the possibility of copper toxicity. We usually ramp the stuff up gradually; if they're used to the one, I'd think they _should_ be OK with the other at full strength right away, but I'm not _certain_ of that. @melypr1985 or @Humblefish should know that answer though.

How long have the fish been under copper therapy? Is there any possibility of moving them to a clean second QT?

~Bruce

 

[aykwm]

I believe you should be fine transitioning from one to the other, at the end of the day the copper ions are the ones killing the parasites, in ionic form you need less because they are readily available, in chelated copper you need more because they are mixed into compounds for reasons, so not as many free ions are available, thus you need more in the solution.
Be sure no copper is left from cupramine so you dont overdose copper.
Also as heads up, make sure to have the appropriate test kit, API will work fine with chelated copper.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Agree with above

 

[kevsqn]

I just did 100% water change last night. matching the temp and salinity. they were fine last night.
This morning the purple tang is swimming on top against the powerhead. this has never happened before.
the powder blue developed a small black patched on one side. maybe bacterial infection? powder blue isnt swimming against the Powerhead
they are both still eating.
i also dosed like this as recommended by @Brew12

For slowly raising copper levels as is appropriate for Ich on all but the most sensitive fish, I recommend dosing 0.3mL/gallon every morning and evening for 3 days. This should get you to 1.8mL/gallon at the end for a concentration of 1.7ppm. Another 0.3mL/gallon dose will put you right at the top end if you want to add it.

so my understanding is if i have 30 gallons. i would dose 9mL in morning and another 9mL at night for 3 days. is this correct?

so i have done once last night. and once this morning.
Also. i have 2 powerhead pointing to the surface plus the HOB thats also agitating the surface.

I could only think of ich? or marine velvet? put they arent showing any signs of white small spots. also i did FW on the purple tang to confirm flukes. didnt find any.
any help would be greatly appreciated.

man. everytime im doing something thats supposed to be better for them. it somehow does the opposite.

 

[aykwm]

Flowing to powerhead highly suggest velvet.
Copper will deal with this problem.
Hopefully within few days they will improve.
Just make sure to keep copper within the recommended range so it can be effective.
For PBT, can you post a picture of the black patch, hopefully nothing to worry about.

 

[kevsqn]

Flowing to powerhead highly suggest velvet.
Copper will deal with this problem.
Hopefully within few days they will improve.
Just make sure to keep copper within the recommended range so it can be effective.
For PBT, can you post a picture of the black patch, hopefully nothing to worry about.

Heres a video. It looks like its a scratch from something. also i forgot to mention theres a clownfish which is unlikely that it got bitten by it.
in the video you can also see the PT with something on the fins. maybe velvet? but nothing on the body. so its the PT and clown that is swimming against the powerhead.
Powder blue, on the other hand, is not swimming against a powerhead but has this black patch.

So i should just bring coppersafe to therapeutic level immediately?

 

[kevsqn]

So this is where the copper is at right now. i dosed total of ~18mL in 20g tank which probably has 18g of water volume. what would you read this?

 

[melypr1985]

So this is where the copper is at right now. i dosed total of ~18mL in 20g tank which probably has 18g of water volume. what would you read this?

It's not quite at 2 yet. You'll want to raise it up a bit more.

 

[Maritimer]

+1 - and with all deliberate speed.

Velvet (which it sounds like your purple tang has at least one classic symptom of) moves swiftly. I suspect, also, that the 30-day countdown begins again from the moment that copper returns to therapeutic levels.

~Bruce

 

[kevsqn]

Tank is sitting at arlund 2ppm now. But the pt is still swimming against the powerhead.
Is this normal?
It has been 10 hours since it reached 2ppm

 

[Maritimer]

Very normal.

The feeding parasites that are clogging the tang's gills will each remain for up to four days, as medications have little effect on that stage of the parasite's life cycle. Those "trophonts" will drop away to become "protomonts", and settle to the bottom of the tank, where they'll encyst and become "tomonts". The tomonts will divide into many daughter cells called "dinospores", and it's when those rise, seeking fish to prey on, that copper is most effective.

In short, your tang will have to "weather the storm" for the next few days, as the parasites gradually drop away. Copper will prevent them from reinfecting.

~Bruce

 

[kevsqn]

thanks everyone.
what if i overdose abit on the coppersafe like maybe 2.1 or 2.2? is that fine?
because i cant exactly tell if its 2.0 on the dot.

Also i know its possible to dose prazipro together with coppersafe.
i have two 2000lph pointing to the surface + the hob .
is this enough aeration if i dose prazipro?
i just wanna make sure they also dont have flukes. I did test the PT though before putting copper. i dont think i saw any flukes.

 

[aykwm]

You can dose copper safe from 1.5 to 2, so if its just below 2 you will be fine.
Its ok to dose prazi with copper and the circulation seems plenty to provide enough oxygen.
Best of luck

 

[kevsqn]

You can dose copper safe from 1.5 to 2, so if its just below 2 you will be fine.
Its ok to dose prazi with copper and the circulation seems plenty to provide enough oxygen.
Best of luck

what if its abit more than 2.0. maybe 2.1 or 2.2?
and the api test kit also doesnt show the color of 1.5
ill post a pic later.

 

[Maritimer]

If you find that you've gone too far, you can do a partial water change to bring the levels down a tad.

I've made the same mistake, though to a greater degree - and it cost the life of a beautiful fish.

~Bruce

 

[Humblefish]

what if its abit more than 2.0. maybe 2.1 or 2.2?

Up to 2.5 is usually fine; however anything over that enters the danger zone.

 

[kevsqn]

It seems like the velvet has spread a little bit more.
Is it normal for it to get worse first then it gets better?
Theyre still swimming on top.
Is it possible its not velvet?