Treatment recommendations-go!

[bknapp]

Personally (not an expert like the others in this thread) I would abandon the Cupramine go with a Chelated copper such as CopperPower or Copper Safe. I've used Copper Safe multiple times with wrasses with zero issues. Currently have a flame wrasse in QT that's been at full therapeutic range for two weeks and is active and eats well. I hope you fix whatever ails your fish, they're beautiful.

 

[Humblefish]

That's an odd one. I've never seen a fish react that way to copper.

I have. Just like certain people can be overly sensitive to medications most of us are fine with, so can quirky fish.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I have. Just like certain people can be overly sensitive to medications most of us are fine with, so can quirky fish.

Any thoughts on what to do? Do you think coffersafe would have a lesser reaction than cupramine? He's not looking ill all the time but he freaks out and then acts a little funny for a bit after. And the level is still very low now...

 

[Humblefish]

Any thoughts on what to do? Do you think coffersafe would have a lesser reaction than cupramine? He's not looking ill all the time but he freaks out and then acts a little funny for a bit after. And the level is still very low now...

It's possible he might react better to Coppersafe; but he also might just be a copper sensitive fish in general. Personally, I would run him thru TTM unless you have a specific reason to treat with copper (like velvet).

 

[ngoodermuth]

Just wanted to post an update in case anyone cares[emoji12]

I did abandon copper for TTM. I'm on transfer 2, and as far as I can tell we may have left the problem behind already. Haven't seen any flashing since the transfer, which leads me to believe it was indeed ich in the gills. Two more transfers, a week for observation, and then finally hoping to get them into the display! It feels so climatic after all I've went through for this little guy [emoji23]

 

[ngoodermuth]

I might have made a big mistake today. The wrasses were doing great, down to the last week of observation. Looking perfect, eating well, all previous symptoms gone. Finished prazi, metro, and TTM. Yesterday, I did the last transfer and later moved the ammonia badge to another tank that I felt "needed it more" at this point. I figured they had just had a change and should be good until I can grab another.

Fast forward to this morning, doing my rounds I noticed that the rhomboids tail looked kind of cloudy and a little tattered. First thought, check ammonia. Pulled out the test kit, and low and behold - nice and green [emoji31] I didn't have enough water mixed, and I had oral surgery a few days ago so siphoning water out is my hubby's job for the time being...so I figured, what the heck. They graduate in a few days anyway, I scooped them out and plopped them in the DT.

Once I got a better look at them under the lights, I started to question my knee-jerk reaction. They have some whitish patches, which could be ammonia related (right?), but could be disease related also. Considering I had a possible velvet case in another QT I'm starting to freak out thinking maybe I cross-contaminated somehow. The only fish behaving any differently is the rhomboid, who has been hanging out at the top of the tank near the flow :/ (I know...velvet) It's also the one who's been heckled the most by the resident tang...so that could be why he's hanging up there, out of the tangs way.

So I guess my question...no heavy breathing, flashing, or spots. Whitish marks (not spots, more like rough patches) on the two fairy wrasses with the leopard looking ok. What are the chances the marks are ammonia related and not disease related? Give it to me straight, or talk me off the ledge...

Test results for reference, not sure what caused the spike but it was around 1-1.5ppm.

 

[Humblefish]

That's pretty high ammonia they were exposed to. I'm guessing catching them to do a MB bath would be next to impossible? I think I would just let everything ride for now and wait & see what happens.

 

[ngoodermuth]

That's pretty high ammonia they were exposed to. I'm guessing catching them to do a MB bath would be next to impossible? I think I would just let everything ride for now and wait & see what happens.

The rhomboid I could probably grab if I was quick enough since he's been swimming right at the surface [emoji23]But in reality, probably not likely to catch them without dismantling the tank...

 

[ngoodermuth]

I should add that I'm not opposed to dismantling the tank if it's needed, but would obviously like to not have to do it unless I really have to.

 

[Humblefish]

I should add that I'm not opposed to dismantling the tank if it's needed, but would obviously like to not have to do it unless I really have to.

Do you have a guesstimate how long they were exposed to that high ammonia? Are any of them breathing heavy?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Do you have a guesstimate how long they were exposed to that high ammonia? Are any of them breathing heavy?

Nope, all breathing, swimming, and eating normally. I got them out pretty quick once I saw the test result.

I had put a bigger heater in their tank earlier because the temp had dropped a bit over night and the small one wasn't cutting it. I didn't notice the cloudy fins until I went back to make sure the temp was good, so I think maybe the raising temperature may have affected the ammonia toxicity. I'd say maybe an hour between adding the heater and noticing the tail fin.

 

[ngoodermuth]

The rhomboid is still using the upper half of the tank but he's not hanging out near the powerhead like he was last night. No real change in their appearance, the white marks are still there but not worse and still no spots.

 

[Humblefish]

The rhomboid is still using the upper half of the tank but he's not hanging out near the powerhead like he was last night. No real change in their appearance, the white marks are still there but not worse and still no spots.

Are they all eating in the DT?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Are they all eating in the DT?

Yep, they ate a few hours after the transfer.

 

[Humblefish]

Yep, they ate a few hours after the transfer.

Even the one hanging in the corner? That's a good sign.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Even the one hanging in the corner? That's a good sign.

Yep, him too! I think he was adjusting to the new environment and tankmates. He's definitely using more of the tank today.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Little update, the rhomboid looks much better. It's tail is healed and the marks on its body are pretty much gone as well. The leopard was un-phased by any of it.

My sensitive, quirky flame wrasse still looks kind of bad. Just like everything else so far I'm guessing he was more sensitive to the ammonia than the other two :/ He's still eating, and might even look a *little* better than yesterday. His one fin is a bit worse than the others, and he almost seems to be favoring it while swimming. Other than that, he's breathing and behaving normally- just looks rough.

I'm still soaking all their food in vita-chem and hoping he will start to look better soon. I'm wondering how long I should give him to recover before starting to worry about infection? Being the nervous Nelly that I am...

 

[Humblefish]

I'm wondering how long I should give him to recover before starting to worry about infection?

I wouldn't be concerned unless you see redness or "something" spreading over the body.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I think he's on the mend, looking much better now. He and his rhomboid buddy are loving the DT

 

[karo25]

Yes

When you say that Metroplex is alright to use with cupramine, is that only when you're feeding or does that include dosing the tank water as well?

I've been quarantining a kole eye tang for 15 days now treating with cupramine but he still has the same spots. No more, no less. He's already been through one freshwater dip and a 90 minute acriflavin dip then place in a brand new sterile tank.