Trident FAQ

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

My interest is in the water removal. If all three tests use 15ml of water, it's safe to say that is 5ml per test. At 4 Alkalinity tests and 2 Calcium & Mag tests per day; that's 40ml of water total per day. Assuming you do weekly water changes (Some of us dont), that is a little over 1.1 cups of water removed. With an auto-top off system in place, this would dilute your specific gravity over a period of time since the 1.1 cups are being replaced with RODI water. For the control freaks, I would think we would need a salt water feed to dump salt water in as replacements (Especially for those that dont do water changes). Maybe im overthinking it and the swings could be minute (Especially on a much larger water volume system).

Hmmm...one possible solution I could imagine would be to determine how much water will be pulled daily from the system (could be done by measuring waste water) and then having a peristaltic pump replace that much water from a saltwater reservoir. I wouldn't think this would be necessary on most systems, but perhaps if someone is running a small nano or a pico or not doing water changes, this could be necessary.

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

Great! Now i have to rehouse this huge thing and make it wall mounted LOL .

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Great! Now i have to rehouse this huge thing and make it wall mounted LOL .

LOL I'm pretty sure at some level you're excited about the new project.

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

LOL I'm pretty sure at some level you're excited about the new project.

LOL yes i am

 

[David Cher]

Is this going to be available in the uk at the same time as the us or are we going to waiting on this like the new eb6 (nonexistent)?

I am having the same question . Where is the new eb6 to pair with the new apex ??

 

[SlvrZ]

Love this technology, I welcome it with wide open arms!!

 

[Kengar]

My interest is in the water removal. If all three tests use 15ml of water, it's safe to say that is 5ml per test. At 4 Alkalinity tests and 2 Calcium & Mag tests per day; that's 40ml of water total per day. Assuming you do weekly water changes (Some of us dont), that is a little over 1.1 cups of water removed weekly. With an auto-top off system in place, this would dilute your specific gravity over a period of time since the 1.1 cups are being replaced with RODI water. For the control freaks, I would think we would need a salt water feed to dump salt water in as replacements (Especially for those that dont do water changes). Maybe im overthinking it and the swings could be minute (Especially on a much larger water volume system).

I thought about that too.

 

[Terence]

My interest is in the water removal. If all three tests use 15ml of water, it's safe to say that is 5ml per test. At 4 Alkalinity tests and 2 Calcium & Mag tests per day; that's 40ml of water total per day. Assuming you do weekly water changes (Some of us dont), that is a little over 1.1 cups of water removed weekly. With an auto-top off system in place, this would dilute your specific gravity over a period of time since the 1.1 cups are being replaced with RODI water. For the control freaks, I would think we would need a salt water feed to dump salt water in as replacements (Especially for those that dont do water changes). Maybe im overthinking it and the swings could be minute (Especially on a much larger water volume system).

Actually, the change is insignificant.

I could be doing this wrong, but here is how I see it.

If you take a 100g aquarium (80 display, 20 sump) as an example thats 1.35 ounces per day, 9.45oz. a week. There are 144000 ounces in that aquarium so that is a dilution of 9.45/144000 = .0000656 * 35ppt = a change of .0023 ppt. That means it would take a lot of time to matter.

 

[infinityends]

Also, can you say why you chose to test the paramters so frequently?.

The reasoning behind this can actually be found in an interview with Jim Welsh from MACNA 2016. At least as far as alk testing goes.

Jim tested frequently and was able to actually see at what time of day his corals were starting to take up alk to build their skeletons. As well as seeing them stop for 24-48 hours after a minor change in the system.

I'm sure calcium would benefit from more info as well magnesium maybe but mostly as far as keeping the balance. But overall it's a situation where more information is never a bad thing.

I picked up a new apex during the 10% off sale last weekend after the announcement that the new version was required. I also have wanted salinity monitoring for a while and never wanted to buy the module and probe and no longer need to worry about it. I also am excited about the wattage monitoring on each outlet on the new powerbar. I think that is a very under marketed feature and a huge selling point that Neptune should push harder.

Overall while I probably would've opted to just purchase the head unit if given the choice I don't really have a problem with it not being offered as an option. Just my 2 cents

 

[shoelaceike]

@Terence, is there any chance you guys might make a Apex brain/Trident combo package? I know myself and many other classic users would be interested in such an upgrade option. I do understand you guys aren't planning to sell the brain by itself anytime soon, so that's not what I'm asking. My hope is that there may be some option for classic owners that doesn't involve unnecessarily buying a whole new Apex system (which no doubt will be prohibitive for many of us)--something like a Trident bundle for classic owners.

Why wouldn't you just sell your current Apex and buy the new one? Let's say that if they did sell the brain it would be $300. You don't think you can sell your Apex for about $300 less than when you bought it?

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Why wouldn't you just sell your current Apex and buy the new one? Let's say that if they did sell the brain it would be $300. You don't think you can sell your Apex for about $300 less than when you bought it?

Currently, the new Apex system's least expensive option is $800.00. I do not think I can sell my basic Apex system for $500 (the classic systems don't sell for that much used). I actually expect that the current announcement that the Trident will not be backwards compatible (which I completely understand and support as a tech advancement) will actually mean that the classic Apex will have an even lower value on the used market. It's just the way these things go...technology gets updated and older models are rendered obsolete (the classic isn't yet obsolete, and I am not implying that it is, but one day it will be, and the new tech will replace it). However, if they do offer an option to buy the brain and Trident in some kind of an upgrade bundle, I will be all over that! If they sold the new brain for $300, I'd be all over that too most likely.

 

[Sleepydoc]

There is more to longevity than how long they last in the bottles. I gave the value above that we think will hold up. If it gets stretched more than that, at this point, we don't know the impact.

As far as cost, you are comparing testing by hand to testing in an automated sense. I do not think this is a fair comparison. If you want to test your tank once a week to save a few dollars, then I would stick to manual testing. The Trident is intended to give an incredible amount of ongoing feedback so that you can manage your tank more closely, create better balance through dosing, check for dosing impact, water change impact, etc. we don't even know all the positive things we can do with this kind of data yet.

As far as the Apex Base Unit. Please see above for the reasoning.

That's a fair point about the frequency of testing. As these devices become available and we can test more frequently it will be interesting to see what if any differences it makes in the health of our tanks. What did you mean when you mentioned that there is more to longevity problems than reagent life? The other issue I've thought of is issues with the tubing and/or water drying out in the mechanism clogging it or causing other operational issues.

I understand the decision to focus on selling the 'complete sets' with Apex 2016 brains, especially if production is limited, but if/when the production constraints resolve, you have many potential customers waiting to buy a 'bare brain.' (I've got a 2016, so this doesn't affect me at all - just thinking of all the other classic owners out there.)

I agree with the response to concerns about water dilution. Assuming 5ml per test, running 8 tests per day, that's 40 ml/day (1 ⅓ oz) or 1200 ml (just over 5 cups) per month. Most of us empty more skimmate than that.

Edit - Thank you @Terrance for taking the time to start this thread and answer the questions. It's rare that you get this kind of direct feedback from a company.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Most of us empty more skimmate than that.

Ha! Very good point!

 

[MnFish1]

All great questions and I appreciate the positive direction this thread is taking already.


There will be a service interval to change the tube on the peristaltic pump. There may be other service to be done as well to tubing or the mixing vial (cuvette) but we have not nailed that all down just yet.


That is part of the plan - basically a way to safely keep your levels in balance with stops if anything is out of line. This is also the reason to do the multiple tests daily. I don't think people have yet realized that part of reasoning.


We will keep these values stored and alerts can be generated.


No. Only the Apex Base Unit is required to operate the Trident. The Trident can use either a 1LINK connection or a AquaBus connection to the Apex. If AquaBus is used, then an external power supply will be required.

Thanks for the update - and answering many of the questions. Much appreciated

 

[Terence]

Currently, the new Apex system's least expensive option is $800.00. I do not think I can sell my basic Apex system for $500 (the classic systems don't sell for that much used). I actually expect that the current announcement that the Trident will not be backwards compatible (which I completely understand and support as a tech advancement) will actually mean that the classic Apex will have an even lower value on the used market. It's just the way these things go...technology gets updated and older models are rendered obsolete (the classic isn't yet obsolete, and I am not implying that it is, but one day it will be, and the new tech will replace it). However, if they do offer an option to buy the brain and Trident in some kind of an upgrade bundle, I will be all over that! If they sold the new brain for $300, I'd be all over that too most likely.

Actually the new Apex could have been had for $719 last weekend.

It is likely that you could have sold your Apex Classic for at least $250 on today's market.

So, what would you get for your $469?

- a new, more advanced Apex
- a new, more advanced Energy Bar
- a brand new set of probes (two of which are the better double junction type)

It is VERY doubtful that the new Apex, if sold on its own, would be less than $400.

You could probably get $125 for your Apex Classic base unit.

So as a comparison, for less than $200 difference you would be getting that new Energy Bar and a whole set of four probes.

Also, the longer one waits, the less they will likely be able to get top dollar for the items they wish to sell.

I understand where all of you are coming from, but this entire upgrade sell-buy process happens with many tech items in other markets.

By filling you all in far ahead of time, we are trying to respond to criticisms we have faced in the past where customers felt we did not give them enough advanced notice.

 

[infinityends]

Maybe I'm not bothered by it because I work in IT and I look forward to new tech and replace old hardware constantly.

But I really don't understand all the complaints about the trident only working on the latest apex that are on other threads and forums.

The apex is a computer like any other. Hardware gets outdated it is just part of making progress. How many of the people complaining get a new smart phone every other year at least. Or a new laptop every 3-5 years.

You can't run any current software from Apple on the phone that came out in 5 years ago. Neptune simply continued offering a lower priced option with the caveat that not all future products would be compatible. It is still a fantastic tool for any aquarium. But things have physical limitations, that fact can't be avoided.

 

[Amoo]

Following, but basic marketing principles tell me that if a product is so hot it is flying off the shelves so fast you can barely keep it in stock, then you don't run %10 sales on that item, conveniently timed with the release of a new product designed specifically for that original product. I think myself and many others just feel disheartened or disregarded with no upgrade path. Sorry, but I call em like I see em.

 

[Zaffor]

If one joined the nsi group as a classic user and since then upgraded to new apex does profile need updating or Neptune knows by our Fusion dash?

 

[Zaffor]

Following, but basic marketing principles tell me that if a product is so hot it is flying off the shelves so fast you can barely keep it in stock, then you don't run %10 sales on that item, conveniently timed with the release of a new product designed specifically for that original product. I think myself and many others just feel disheartened or disregarded with no upgrade path. Sorry, but I call em like I see em.

Actually it is not uncommon to see sales going on during MACNA. It wasn't just the new apex on sale, it was all their products. Sometimes they may offer a discount during November (black friday) as well.

 

[Amoo]

Actually it is not uncommon to see sales going on during MACNA. It wasn't just the new apex on sale, it was all their products. Sometimes they may offer a discount during November (black friday) as well.

I'm not suggesting sales are uncommon, what I am suggesting is that it's not uncommon for most companies to put almost everything on sale with the exception of their latest and greatest because either:

1. They are limited on stock and know they can get top dollar for said item

or

2. It's new and they know they can get top dollar for it regardless so why put it on sale.

Again, I'm not saying sale's are uncommon, I'm just stating basic principles of running a business.

Neptune chose to go ahead and put these "limited" brain packages on sale which are apparently selling so fast they can't break them up and make just brains...