Trident FAQ

[User1]

I hate all testing, and I love the trident. Testing is filled with so many pitfalls from user error to big +/- . Comparing tests is nutty because how do you know what is rightest? All you can really hope for is ballpark trends, which can be really useful. The trident, and the apex, give you awesome trends. And the trident has been holding up to the testing we do at CAS - though I still don’t know which is rightest, but they are similar.
At home I use api all tests because it is simple and puts me in the ballpark. For salinity I am still deciding what I like (currently running a long term thing - the Misco is currently winning, but is 500 bucks with the lowest +/- and you calibrate with every use). For phosphate and nitrate I use a Hach dr890 and do the tests exactly the same way as much as I can. For all other tests, I generally use aquamedicwatertesting as they have almost always been comparable to the lab tests CAS, and they do the tests the same way every time with auto titrators/colorimiters to take out some human error - plus they use up to date reagents and calibrations (something that can be problematic for home testers). I also don’t see color well so titrations have always been frustrating.
The trident, testing all 4 times a day give me a lot of confidence in the trend. Twice a day for Mg and Ca give good trends as well. And, as I say, the results have been well in the ballpark of tests I have been able to trust over time.
I have not had the time or funds to set up repeatable testing of hobby test kits with certified standards, so I have no idea of how in the ball park popular test kits may be, but the +/- on some is large.
Trends are your friend. One off tests for specific numbers are not your friend. Trident is amazing for trends.

It is too bad I can only give this one 'like'. You actually hit the nail on the head with this post. In fact, I think it was in one of your videos - either the one with Neptune and the tour of the facility or your presentation. In any case you covered this with the salinity probe. It isn't about the number but more of the trend over time that you paid attention to. It was then that the light bulb went off in my head and I was like hmm...I never really thought of it that way.

The trend and visual presentation layer by consistent and repeatable tests will pay for itself not to mention our time. That is just how I see it.

 

[User1]

I don’t really trust icp results, except within certain parameters. Wrote a whole article about it.

Hmm...I'll have to search for that. I have used ATI's a few times to compare with what I measure at home. A bit nervous now but I guess I should read what you put together.

 

[stacksoner]

This is their one shot at gaining recurring revenue from a component sale

I agree - in addition - (No offense to Neptune) - Except to sell more reagents - I see no value in testing Mg more than once every couple months - and Ca perhaps every 2-4 weeks. It may be helpful when trying to start dosing in a new tank especially - but not for Mg.

You nailed it. This is their one opportunity to capture recurring revenue after the customer makes a high 3 figure purchase. I'm sure some people at the company wish they had charged a monthly subscription for fusion when the market fully consumed it's demand for apex and money wasn't flowing in like it did in prior years

 

[User1]

Reef Raft Nauti Spiral has been my canary in the coal mine coral for seeing the health of my tank.

Brown/Drab Orange pre Trident (Taken early Jan)

Taken April 2nd after using the Trident for about 2 and a half months. Coral is now vibrant gold with a pink rim.

Pretty fish - what is it (not knowing and having to ask probably means it is outside my budget).

Second question if you don't mind. Which color is the coral supposed to be? I know that can be taken a couple different ways but I'm actually wondering to tie everything together. I know lighting effects the coral and based on what I'm reading parameters do as well. So it is just a dumb question, sorry.

 

[User1]

Fish is a Venustus Angelfish from Diver’s Den.

I run a 12 gallon tank so my parameters and stability to keep sps has always been a challenge. After turning on the Trident I saw large swings in all 3 parameters for a few weeks. Eventually I was able to dial in my daily dosage. Testing a few times a week with a manual test gets you close but testing 4 times a day reveals ebbs and flow due to light cycles and salinity. Eventually I nailed my dosage into fractions of a ml. And since things were now stable consumption has been steadily increasing. I can see this trend and adjust to compensate.

Wanted to say that @o2manyfish fish had a reply similar using some automated testing over the course of a day. Some of the results he shared are pretty interesting again going back to the trends. If nothing else the product sounds like it will shed some light on how the tanks organisms use the various elements.

 

[NeveSSL]

You all act like it's a surprise they're in business. Recurring revenue is great for business continuity. And Neptune's business continuity is great for my reefing continuity. I am confident they're subsidizing the cost of the hardware a bit for the chance at earning ongoing revenue. I'm also confident they have worked very, very hard to make the price of all of this to be as low and accessible as possible. All of this despite the hateful comments coming from people that somehow think they're only in this for the money. Quit hating on them for creating a sustainable business model and be happy we have the options we do. They're one of, what, 4 companies world wide trying to take automated testing on? That's good stuff.

Brandon

 

[JeffB418]

This is their one shot at gaining recurring revenue from a component sale


You nailed it. This is their one opportunity to capture recurring revenue after the customer makes a high 3 figure purchase. I'm sure some people at the company wish they had charged a monthly subscription for fusion when the market fully consumed it's demand for apex and money wasn't flowing in like it did in prior years

Oh Neptune still could. Someone found some info buried deep in the terms of service that basically said they reserve the right to charge for future capabilities. Not sure they would but never know. It’s why Microsoft went from a release based licensing to yearly subscriptions.

 

[User1]

This is their one shot at gaining recurring revenue from a component sale


You nailed it. This is their one opportunity to capture recurring revenue after the customer makes a high 3 figure purchase. I'm sure some people at the company wish they had charged a monthly subscription for fusion when the market fully consumed it's demand for apex and money wasn't flowing in like it did in prior years

If you think they are going to make any significant revenue off regent sells you are off your rocker. I'm sorry but with this post I honestly think they could give you the product with a pretty bow and you will still not be satisfied. I understand you don't agree and are stead fast in your belief but everyone is trying to answer what they can, even the testers, and you still ignore the facts presented or can come to a reasonable common ground.

Clearly the product isn't for you. I think you should bow out of the thread.

 

[User1]

Oh Neptune still could. Someone found some info buried deep in the terms of service that basically said they reserve the right to charge for future capabilities. Not sure they would but never know. It’s why Microsoft went from a release based licensing to yearly subscriptions.

Everyone is charging subscriptions. They do it because loss of revenue. This isn't apples to apples. Come on.

People pirated software and small and enterprise business under reported license use. Database vendors went to license per CPU, others subscription. Neptune's end game isn't the regent. Even if it is so what. If you are an advanced hobbyist chances are high you are already paying for regents and test kits so it is a wash.

Let us be fair people...

 

[JeffB418]

If you think they are going to make any significant revenue off regent sells you are off your rocker. I'm sorry but with this post I honestly think they could give you the product with a pretty bow and you will still not be satisfied. I understand you don't agree and are stead fast in your belief but everyone is trying to answer what they can, even the testers, and you still ignore the facts presented or can come to a reasonable common ground.

Clearly the product isn't for you. I think you should bow out of the thread.

Overhead cost for producing reagents in bulk will likely be significantly low. They most definitely make money off it. Same concept as gaming systems. Companies break even on consoles but make bank on software. It’s just how it works.

 

[JeffB418]

Everyone is charging subscriptions. They do it because loss of revenue. This isn't apples to apples. Come on.

People pirated software and small and enterprise business under reported license use. Database vendors went to license per CPU, others subscription. Neptune's end game isn't the regent. Even if it is so what. If you are an advanced hobbyist chances are high you are already paying for regents and test kits so it is a wash.

Let us be fair people...

I’m not knocking it, Neptune is a business not a charity, I completely get it. It’s also a hobby not a necessity.

 

[User1]

I’m not knocking it, Neptune is a business not a charity, I completely get it. It’s also a hobby not a necessity.

If they started to charge for portal / fusion access I would tend to agree with subscription/regent revenue comments. But I do see your point. Fair enough.

 

[JeffB418]

I’m personally still going to get a trident. I own the KH Guardian and Reefbot. I’m interested to see how they compare in the long run.

 

[MnFish1]

If you think they are going to make any significant revenue off regent sells you are off your rocker. I'm sorry but with this post I honestly think they could give you the product with a pretty bow and you will still not be satisfied. I understand you don't agree and are stead fast in your belief but everyone is trying to answer what they can, even the testers, and you still ignore the facts presented or can come to a reasonable common ground.

Clearly the product isn't for you. I think you should bow out of the thread.

I am not sure this is correct. They will get significant revenue from the reagents. They can charge whatever they want for reagents. Once someone buys a 700$ product its not like they are going to quit doing it. If I buy this product I will be spending significantly more on Ca and Mg testing than I do now (and Alk as well) - but I see the potential benefit to the Alk. BTW-I have no problem with them making a profit off the reagents - Its fine. I have just never heard a rational answer as to why Mg testing is needed more than once/month and Ca perhaps once per week. I mean I haven't heard everyone here clamoring about 'how is the magnesium looking every 12 hours????" Its all- about alkalinity or am I missing something? So - if 2 of the tests being done aren't required - the customer is paying for 2 reagents they they don't need to manage a reef tank (because unless something has changed - the reagents expire after opening - so you're required to buy them on a certain frequency. This might have changed IDK. So - putting it away from Neptune - those people buying the reagents are spending more than they need to per month to manage a reef tank. IMHO.

PS I meant to quote your other post down below not this one. But - regarding the post above - why do you seem to be so personally offended whenever someone asks a question or makes a comment that has anything to do with questioning Neptune - by the way - thats meant honestly - I'm wondering why you are so over the top about this product as compared to some of the others?

 

[NeveSSL]

It could be that the only answer to your question is to drive reagent sales. And I'm personally fine with that at roughly $20 to $25 per month. I'm glad to pay that to not have to test manually. I'm also a data geek, so it makes me happy to have the data available to watch for trends.

It also makes sense some people are not ok with that cost.

Brandon

 

[MnFish1]

It could be that the only answer to your question is to drive reagent sales. And I'm personally fine with that at roughly $20 to $25 per month. I'm glad to pay that to not have to test manually. I'm also a data geek, so it makes me happy to have the data available to watch for trends.

It also makes sense some people are not ok with that cost.

Brandon

The funny thing is im kind of a gadget geek and data geek - so even though I fundamentally disagree with some of the reasoning for doing it - if it turns out to be helpful - I would enjoy the data as well - Is the cost expected to be 20-25 $/month?I had thought it was higher. My only issue is that the trident needs to be mounted above the sump (is this correct) - if true I'm not sure where I can put it - but depending on how big it is - I have an idea.

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

It could be that the only answer to your question is to drive reagent sales. And I'm personally fine with that at roughly $20 to $25 per month. I'm glad to pay that to not have to test manually. I'm also a data geek, so it makes me happy to have the data available to watch for trends.

It also makes sense some people are not ok with that cost.

Brandon

If they aren’t ok with the cost, don’t buy the product. If cost is an issue, you most likely don’t have a $3000 apex system. If cost is the issue, you can just test manually and spend just as much on reagents.

 

[User1]

PS I meant to quote your other post down below not this one. But - regarding the post above - why do you seem to be so personally offended whenever someone asks a question or makes a comment that has anything to do with questioning Neptune - by the way - thats meant honestly - I'm wondering why you are so over the top about this product as compared to some of the others?

Fair enough. I'm personally not offended but what strikes me odd is when a question is asked, then later answered, and the question is asked again by the same person, only to be answered again and no middle ground is reached it gets old. If you are not able to have a honest discussion without setting your personal bias on the table then it is time to stop. That means everyone here who is participating in the discussion including me. I'll also clarify that this product, today, isn't for me be it provided by Neptune or other. I do own the Apex ecosystem so if and when I'm ready for a product such as this then it would be the first vendor I go to because it will plug and play. Also if you need to know I go back to 2000 with the Neptune unit with X10's...go figure.

The discussions around revenue I think are unjust. I've stated that as much and as you see above with my exchange with @JeffB418 while I do not agree I can come to a rational understanding of their opinion, respect that, and move on. I do not agree with that aspect and see it differently. In fact, if the revenue stream was a concern then they would be charging us a subscription for the fusion presentation layer. Do you think the development and hosting fees are free? If they are using AWS and any LB's in front of their app I'm pretty sure it isn't cheap... My point in this is it is a product they felt was needed. May have taken longer, may have needed a design change, may have needed other things for which non of us know. With anything else in this hobby patience is a must - why think there is an alternate motive?

I feel I'm pretty reasonable lad and can see the various themes here. I see your point and concern about testing frequency and Mg (understanding and common ground point noted above). However to say it is vapor ware over and over or the regents are nothing more than a revenue stream I think it is taking this too far. Agree to disagree but in the end if there no meeting in the middle, even after actual testers share what they can, then I call it what it is and say it is time to stop participate in the discussion.

Edit: @MnFish1 - I am not addressing my I's or You's or person to you - it is just the way I'm thinking and/or typing. It is just a general response to your question not saying you did something or directed at you if this makes any sense.

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

I personally don’t mind the cost as I spend more per month on reagents. I have the trident pre ordered and can’t wait to get it hopefully later this month or in May.

 

[MnFish1]

This is their one shot at gaining recurring revenue from a component sale


You nailed it. This is their one opportunity to capture recurring revenue after the customer makes a high 3 figure purchase. I'm sure some people at the company wish they had charged a monthly subscription for fusion when the market fully consumed it's demand for apex and money wasn't flowing in like it did in prior years

Well - no offense - but - they didn't charge a price for Fusion - so thats a positive. Nor does any other company of which im aware (echosmart, maxspect) charge for their apps/internet access. Nor Nest, Schlage locks, Philips Hue, etc - thats why the prices are higher to begin with - to pay for the apps, etc.