TTM how does anyone think this will work?

Mr. Limpid

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Please read the life cycle of ICK. After reading do you still think Tank Transfer Method will work?

Crytocaryon irritans has four different stages in its life. Theronts is the stage in which free swimming tomites, which have been released from their cysts which were residing on the ocean floor (or aquarium substrate), attach to the skin or in the gills of the host fish. These tomites burrow into the skin or gills and encase themselves in a protective cyst where they feed on the fish's body fluids and cells. The tomites can survive without a host at this stage for between ten and eleven days. At this point, many of the Top Ich & Other External Fish Parasite Treatmentshave been found to be effective treatments.

Tomites actively feeding at this point are in the trophont stage. In controlled experiments, the parasite has remained in the fish's gills or just under the skin for 4-5 months at reduced temperatures (12°C (53.6°F), then developed and infected other fish when the water temperature was raised to 27°C (80.6°F).

The tomites, while encased inside the fish's gills or under the skin, are next to impossible to treat effectively with chemicals, however, freshwater dips have been known to "explode" the tomites while "on" the fish's skin before it has the opportunity to burrow into the fish's skin or gills. Hyposalinity has also been shown to be an effective treatment.

The trophont feeds on the body fluids and cells of the fish for about 3–7 days before leaving the host. It has also been found that trophonts will actively leave fish that have died, however, are not immediately able to infect other fish at this point as they require additional time to develop from protomonts (released tomites) to tomonts, just as they would if they had left a live host.

At this point, the tomite moves to the substrate for 2 to 18 hours where it sticks to the surface and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont At this point, before it completes encystment (8 to 12 hours), it is open to effective treatment. Once the cyst has completely formed the encased tomont is impervious to treatment.

The encysted tomont divides many times at this point, producing numerous daughter (approximately 100 to 1000) tomites. These tomites are released as theronts, the free-swimming stage at which they can infect other fish. The therontsmay take up to 72 days to be released into the water with most being released between 5 and 13 days after formation. In laboratory studies, Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period.


After release, the theronts actively seek a fish host and can survive at this point for 6 to 8 hours. During this time, the theront is most susceptible to treatment.

Once the theront locates a host it only takes 5 minutes for it to burrow into the skin while during gill invasion, the parasite can become enclosed by a thin layer of cells within 20–30 minutes. At this point, the cycle starts all over again.

Once the parasites have left the host, bacterial infections are quite common at the sites where the parasites have entered and departed the fish's skin and gills
 
I’m confused. You understand that TTM has been shown to be extremely effective, largely due to the particular life cycle you describe and rigid adherence to a 72 hour max timeline before transfer, right?
How does 72 hours work if the trophont feeds on the body fluids and cells of the fish for about 3–7 days before leaving the host. You will still have some left on the body.
 
Reason why you keep transferring so make sure all the ones on the body drops off.
 
Are you doing a fresh water dip between transfer? Because there is always a chance of transferring tomites or theronts in the droplets on the net or fish.
 
Are you doing a fresh water dip between transfer? Because there is always a chance of transferring tomites or theronts in the droplets on the net or fish.

No dip.

Use a new, sterilized net, or better yet a square plastic colander. Transfer as little water as possible.

The consecutive 3 day max transfers ‘outrun’ the infectious stages of the parasite, so that, by round 3, they have all died off due to inability to complete a full life cycle.

You need, at minimum, 2 sets of equipment. 2x 10 gal tank, 2 heaters, 2 air stones and tubing. After first transfer, entire setup gets sterilized with bleach and air dried minimum 24 hours. Toss the air stone and tubing- it’s cheap. Once second 3 days is up, reuse first sterilized set up, and bleach and dry the second set up.
 
Are you doing a fresh water dip between transfer? Because there is always a chance of transferring tomites or theronts in the droplets on the net or fish.
There is a chance of transferring a theront/tomites with the first transfer. However, with no new tomonts having time to hatch, there will be no more theronts in the water to go with any of the other transfers.
 
Trophont can stay on the body up to 7 days, so on the second transfer you can have live tomite swimming around. Then after 18 hours you have tomont stuck to who knows were, which are impervious to treatment. So they need to be scrubbed off and if you miss one you may have 1,000 theronts swimming around in your transfer tank. Still not see this process working and make a lot of stress on your already stressed fish. Why not just Hypo the QT and be done with it?
 
So they need to be scrubbed off and if you miss one you may have 1,000 theronts swimming around in your transfer tank. Still not see this process working and make a lot of stress on your already stressed fish. Why not just Hypo the QT and be done with it?

One of the keys to this method is not only scrubbing and sterilizing the tanks after each transfer, but also letting them dry out completely. That takes care of it.
 
Sorry dude- I don’t have the necessary visual aids to show you. It really isn’t complicated. As long as you rigidly stick to 72 hours MAX, sterilize and COMPLETELY dry the equipment, it works.

Hypo doesn’t work, copper doesn’t work and Is really stressful, and risking your DT and all other livestock is just irresponsible.

It works. If you don’t want to do it, no problem. But it works for a whole bunch of people.
 
How it work at all if ick can live in the gills for 4 months?

Tomites actively feeding at this point are in the trophont stage. In controlled experiments, the parasite has remained in the fish's gills or just under the skin for 4-5 months at reduced temperatures (12°C (53.6°F), then developed and infected other fish when the water temperature was raised to 27°C (80.6°F).



How often do you keep your fish at 54oF?

The cycle in a normal temperature aquarium is 2-3 days for this stage. They don’t live for 4 months in the gills unless you basically chill the fish to dormancy.
 
Tank transfer method has been proven to be highly effective at eradicating ich.

The problem is we are living in the age of Marine Velvet Disease, and TTM only delays symptoms of those parasites from showing up. To complicate things, ich & velvet can look very similar (especially at the onset).

72 hour transfers will not eradicate velvet.
 
TTM with prazi at round 2 and 4 followed by 4 weeks Chloroquine Phosphate covers the major pathogens, as far as I know.
 
I started TTM last night for 3 fishes with ich. What do you all suggest I do if they get an outbreak during the course of treatment? Stay the course, don't use any medication, and keep transferring every 72 hours?

Thanks!
 

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