TTM or copper for ich?

[Be102]

Is it possible my fish could have velvet? Or would I know by now? I just want to make this as painless as possible. Starting to copper dose and order a checker would be something I’d look into, although would prolong this whole situation itself for shipping and stuff. Granted the fish don’t seem to have a timespan and are doing quite alright surprisingly.. it’s also strange because I have never once seen white spots on the smaller clown but the bigger one has the periodically

 

[4FordFamily]

Is it possible my fish could have velvet? Or would I know by now? I just want to make this as painless as possible. Starting to copper dose and order a checker would be something I’d look into, although would prolong this whole situation itself for shipping and stuff. Granted the fish don’t seem to have a timespan and are doing quite alright surprisingly.. it’s also strange because I have never once seen white spots on the smaller clown but the bigger one has the periodically

Some fish can wait 2 weeks or more to show velvet symptoms because they are often kept in subtherapeutic copper which does not rid them of velvet but stalls it's life cycle for some time. This can be exacerbated by some fish that are naturally very resistant even to velvet such as some wrasse and gobies. Thick slimecoats help immensely. In the case of wrasse, many sleep in mucous cocoons, or under the sand, or both as well as the thick slimecoat -- this means that they're shielded from all but severe velvet infestations and as such can go months without showing obvious velvet symptoms during observation but are still VERY capable of spreading it to any system they're added to. They are great Typhoid Marys, unfortunately.

 

[Be102]

Some fish can wait 2 weeks or more to show velvet symptoms because they are often kept in subtherapeutic copper which does not rid them of velvet but stalls it's life cycle for some time. This can be exacerbated by some fish that are naturally very resistant even to velvet such as some wrasse and gobies. Thick slimecoats help immensely. In the case of wrasse, many sleep in mucous cocoons, or under the sand, or both as well as the thick slimecoat -- this means that they're shielded from all but severe velvet infestations and as such can go months without showing obvious velvet symptoms during observation but are still VERY capable of spreading it to any system they're added to. They are great Typhoid Marys, unfortunately.

Is velvet a guaranteed killer? These fish have been with me for years and I only sometimes see white spots on the large clown here and there

 

[Radman73]

The issue is that velvet is just as common as ich these days, and TTM does not treat for velvet. I wouldn't use TTM, the only alternate I would personally consider is Chloroquine Phosphate but it can be difficult to source, pure CP requires a vet's script.

I guess from that respect I've been pretty lucky as I have yet to experience ich or velvet, but there are certainly plenty who have. Then again, I don't buy high numbers of fish. And yeah, TTM is pretty useless for velvet. But still, for a nano, I'd prob still use the copper in a 5gal bucket knowing exactly what the water volume is to know how much to dose. Most of us in the hobby can spare the $60 or so to get the checker and spare reagents but not all can. I don't want some to think they HAVE to get it. But hopefully most can afford it and understand the benefits it brings.

 

[Be102]

I may sound cheap and negligent to my fish but that wasn’t my viewpoint really. I have no problem with spending the $$ on the checker and all the other stuff. I just am hesitant of the chemicals and if not needed I’d like to avoid them. Maybe I’m a bad fish owner ;Blackeye

 

[4FordFamily]

Is velvet a guaranteed killer? These fish have been with me for years and I only sometimes see white spots on the large clown here and there

Some fish such as wrasse -- particularly those that sleep protected in mucous cocoons, under the sand, or both are often shielded from bad infestations unless the numbers get out of control. Gobies are often hardy and have thick enough slime coats that they can fight it off.

In truth most fish can if they're exposed to it in small doses over a small amount of time -- I.E. if it does not continue to reproduce to the point of overwhelming the fish which can happen in days in sensitive fish with weak slime coats such as Powder blue, Achilles, and similar acanthurus tangs. It's well-documented that fish can develop a "resistance" to it. This is not feasible for most hobbyists, based on the equipment, number of tanks, and who knows what other constants were involved in these experiments.

I can tell you that I kept a wrasse tank with known velvet for some 8 months before I went on vacation and lost power and everything died. There was even a blonde naso tang who developed a resistance (note that an immunity is not a scientific reality and this term is often used incorrectly -- the difference of course is that a resistance can be reduced by external factors, an immune fish is immune to a parasite in nearly any situation which is not attainable for parasitic infections). She was fat and heathy before being suffocated for days before my father (who was watching the fish) noticed.

I would question the ethics of that practice, and SOME wrasse DID succumb to velvet -- a rhomboid wrasse, a lineatus, and a couple others. Another 20 or so did fine for a good 8-12 months in this system without quarantine. This was also 3 years ago, and a VERY different environment than now. The distribution system has worsened substantially making this practice harder. I planned after my vacation to release my fish from my 55 gal quarantine and then treat all wrasse to rid the parasites from this tank entirely, finally. I started with my Angel and Tang 180 gallon systems. My timeline was quite slow...