Two out of two fish died in two days

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

Alright, I have a 6 gallon nano frag tank. There is no live rock, no sand. I have a good filter, protein skimmer, powerhead, auto top off, heater, I went all out.

It's over a month old, and finished cycling. I haven't added coral yet, but plan on doing so very soon.

So, I had a tiny six line wrasse in there with a blood red shrimp, a snail, and a hermit crab. The wrasse was doing great for a month, out of no where, it died. I went to the aquarium store and put a damsel in my tank, next morning dead. I check all my water parameters constantly. I'm dosing my tank to stabilize before putting in the coral. Everything should be fine.

There is no way the blood red shrimp is killing the fish right? The damsel this morning was torn to shreds. But I figured the shrimp had been cleaning it while deceased. The wrasse looked fine, not chewed up.

What is happening?

vetteguy53081 · Dec 17, 2020

Your tank is going through post cycle chemical changes known as spikes
Do a water test focusing on ammonia-ph- nitrate and message what your readings are

salinity should be 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-79

ARE YOU USING RODI WATER OR TAP WATER FROM FAUCET?

Uncle99 · Dec 17, 2020

Can you post your water parameters including ammonia level.
You have no rock, no sand, so limited surface for bacteria to attach to. You may not have enough to prcoess the ammonia.

And what exactly are you doing at this early stage.

eraserhead187 · Dec 17, 2020

It is probably unlikely that the shrimp killed the wrasse, but not impossible. When wrasses sleep they form a little slime layer and sleep between rocks, under rocks, etc. If you've got a crazy shrimp that has a thirst for blood, it's not out of the realm of possibility. The damsel is one I would be surprised to see that happen to.

I had a six line wrasse that fell victim to an evil coral banded shrimp a while back. Poor little guy didn't even know what was coming. I had seen the shrimp take swipes at him and some other fish when they got close previously. I feel like the coral banded is more capable of killing fish than a blood red though. Heck he has pinched me a few times and it was surprising.

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
Your tank is going through post cycle chemical changes known as spikes
Do a water test focusing on ammonia-ph- nitrate and message what your readings are

salinity should be 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-79

ARE YOU USING RODI WATER OR TAP WATER FROM FAUCET?

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

I use RODI water, i tested the PH this morning. 8.2
I'll do a nitrate and nitrite test soon.

Doing a water change now. I'll test the old water and post the results. Then tomorrow I'll do a post water change test.

Moxtrain · Dec 17, 2020

Jmm07e said:
I use RODI water, i tested the PH this morning. 8.2
I'll do a nitrate and nitrite test soon.

Doing a water change now. I'll test the old water and post the results. Then tomorrow I'll do a post water change test.

You seem to have ignored ammonia which is the most likely culprit. Also, as previously mentioned, why/what are you dosing in such a young tank?

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

It has to be ammonia, I'm dosing calcium, magnesium, carbonate.

Also, I have a flat heater that the wrasse would go behind every night. I don't think it was the shrimp, had to be ammonia.

Uncle99 · Dec 17, 2020

You should be dosing nothing at 30 days, simple water changes will keep everything in range.

I would consider a couple of WC and some new carbon.

You need to be aware of both Nitrates and Phosphates at this early stage, WC are easy way of reducing Nitrates.
You may find it helpful to work towards keeping N at 2-5ppm and P at 0.03 - .1ppm, this will keep the next few months uglies at a minimum.

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

will do, thanks for the help

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2020

it does not have to be ammonia.

ammonia kills all animals. none survive.

a filter with enough surface area can run that bioload, and does for many a lfs

is your filter also empty

ammonia smells, sniff the water

ammonia clouds, is your water clear

ammonia causes gill reddening, heavy breathing, at the top, signals before death. ammonia is the least likely culprit here unless they all die in a cloudy haze within 12 hours of addition

if they didn't, you have enough surface area and the culprit is elsewhere. your description matches everyone's quarantine setup, already proven to handle basic ammonia if they're not empty. assuming no antibiotics are ran here

we are used to dealing with much extra surface area via rocks however. it will be neat to see if yours is ammonia

and no, if api says .25 right now or .5 that is not case closed. google has fifteen million of those in perfect full reefs. ideally we get to see one of the visual clues above and a test reading for ammonia. need both

your system already processed mass death, plus bioload, plus animals survived. this is the power of a canister filter and packed with wool etc

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

I have a marine land penguin 10 gal filter. I also have a protein skimmer.

It's ammonia, almost certain.

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

The water was crystal clear, but there was a lot of waste at the bottom of the tank

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2020

post pics

I still bet its not

why would you assume your tank cant run like everyone's qt system

your system processed waste, bioload, and new death, and still didn't go cloudy.

ammonia tracing is full of left curves and .5 api

what does your tester say, pegged green? lets see the actual ammonia test pic. need to see a simple clear cell phone picture of the display with animals and waste in it.

why run this setup, curious as to was this an experiment you were trying

Dbichler · Dec 17, 2020

Fish like to hide to reduce stress with nothing in the tank the fish will be stressed. A six line in a 6 gallon tank is destined for failure.

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2020

curious as to why start a reef like this

had to have known the risks of low surface area?
if was a quarantine start up that's fine, everyone's pvc didn't add to helpful surface area they're too slick, and the connected HOB filters run the job.

post pics, I still bet its not ammonia. delayed nh3 issues do not occur in reefing, they occur fast, and thorough, and like an animal that lost 100% of its kidney function all at once.

you describe a delayed nonthorough fish-only loss of a system not using fallow, hiding places etc.

Jmm07e · Dec 17, 2020

Here is the setup, I just did a water change, I had to order ammonia test kit, I have all other kinds of test kits, but not ammonia. I wanted a nano frag tank. I talked to the aquarium store, they told me the six line was perfect. Got suckered into buying it. Maybe a neon golby or a paired two will be fine in the future.

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2020

Im shocked they'd sell you a fish for that new of a setup after knowing about it.

curious how ammonia wasn't the first test bought if indeed intended to keep fish without the display surface area...if everything is truly dead now then it might be.

but not if some snails survived etc and the water is very clear. ammonia clouds water always, by fueling such strong quick bacterial growth the surfaces can't process it all. the locus moves to the water column and that smells and is visually gray water.

I bet you have placed feed in there, right?