uncured silicone toxic ???

cracker · Oct 4, 2016

So everybody looks a "lot" better almost back to normal. I'll watch real close in the near future and certainly won't make that mistake again ! Thanks for the OP's and suggestions.

Sabellafella · Oct 4, 2016

cracker said:
So everybody looks a "lot" better almost back to normal. I'll watch real close in the near future and certainly won't make that mistake again ! Thanks for the OP's and suggestions.

Great to hear!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 5, 2016

RobBaglieri said:
Does GAC bind or trap these types of contaminants?

I believe that GAC will bind most components in a silicone adhesive/sealant.

Rybren · Oct 5, 2016

This is from a thread on RC. I can't verify the details, but the author - uncleof6 - seems to know his stuff...

"Neutral Cure silicones (such as GE II) release Ammonia, and Menthanol, while curing. Both of these chemicals are very toxic to marine life. Once fully cured, 100% silicone rubber is just that: 100% silicone rubber. An inert product that does not leach anything. Acetoxy Cure silicones ( such as GE I) release Acetic Acid, during curing. Acetic Acid is less toxic; it is added to Calcium Hydroxide to increase the solubility of the Calcium, but anything at the right level can be toxic. One cured, it is an inert product."

I added the parts in brackets, but they were taken from another post by uncleof6 in the same thread.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 5, 2016

GE Silicone 1 releases acetic acid on cure, not ammonia. GE Silicone II is neutral cure.

In any case, I'd have to disagree and wouldn't be convinced those are an issue anyway. Methanol is an ingredient in NOPOX, so is apparently not especially toxic at the levels likely to be encountered.

http://www.caulkyourhome.com/frequently-asked-questions.php#prod_1

"How long will caulk release an odor?
Caulk releases an odor during its cure cycle. Most of this process occurs during the first 24 hours after the product is applied. GE Silicone II* caulk is a neutral cure caulk and does not have the vinegar-type odor that is associated with acetoxy cure caulks like GE Silicone I* and most other silicone caulks."

Rybren · Oct 5, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
GE Silicone 1 releases acetic acid on cure, not ammonia. GE Silicone II is neutral cure.

That's what he said in his posts. As to toxicity, I have no idea. You're THE EXPERT

jason2459 · Oct 5, 2016

Methanol is seen in very small amounts in the ocean which can be toxic including its metabolites. The amount used in nopox seems to be a small enough amount to not be a problem (common for denaturing) and would spur a different type of bacterium process. I don't believe that extra process to be that much more benificial and the formaldehyde and eventually formic acid I don't see as benificial and are highly toxic to most life.

cracker · Oct 6, 2016

Good Info gents. so today everybody but one mushroom looks back to normal. so I hope I dodged a big screwup. However now I gotta worry about Hurricane Mathew! I expect the power to be out for a good while.I'm about 20
miles from the beach just south of Jacksonville Fl. The forecast is saying possible gusts to 100 mph ! I have a small dc bilge pump and 2 big deep cycle batteries in the boat. I plan to run it a couple hours a day in this 75. Other then that I loaded up on beers if I get thirsty ! It's just the dog and I and we are up for some "Urban Camping" . Might be a while before I check in. Good luck to all the other east coast reefers !

cromag27 · Oct 6, 2016

Using a water vessel with silicone joints before will also cause issues with structural integrity. I used to build glass tanks and would wait at least a full week before doing a leak test.

The aqueon stuff is similar to GE 1. both are junk. the standard in the industry is momentive rtv 100 series. remember, the packages recommended cure/usaged time is based on the applications listed on the package - bathtubs, windows, etc. the bead size we use is much larger and takes longer to fully cure. also, silicone cures past the point when you can't smell it.

Myka · Oct 10, 2016

@cracker Did you make it to this side of the storm?

cracker · Oct 10, 2016

Oh Ya, everybody was just fine. I was lucky lost power for 18 hrs or so . A few busted limbs and such. Thanks so much for asking. Also my aquatic friends survived the poisoning I subjected them to. Just one fancy mushroom doesn't look happy.

KingLucy1997 · Dec 16, 2021

Wait tree limbs or your body’s limbs?

so I am cycling a new 10g tank with dry rock and what used to be live rock but was left in the attic for over 2 winter. I used aquarium safe silicone sealant to aqua scape them together, but the I dumped water on the silicone to try and make the silicone seal faster. Seemed to produce and acetic vinegar smell and also only took a couple seconds of holding the sealant silicone in place before they were able to hold themselves up on their own. At this point I filled the aquarium and started to cycle it. It has been maybe about two weeks of cycling. In that time I added some copepods, macroalgae and the hair algae attached from my 3 gallon reef tank and a red ogo looking macroalgae that is red and some really nice branching tree like patterns. I have started my 30g filter to the 10g tank and added a Nano protein skimmer, turning the protein skimmer on to start the break in process. I’ve been adding Microbacter from brightwell aquatics (40 drops a day mixed into DI/RO water about the volume of the Apocalypse Pods live copepods (1500 copepods 50-2000 microns) jar they came in produced by Algae Barn at an average rate of about 40 drops for the Microbacter solution. I have noticed that some gas particles seem to have been coming off this silicone sealant for about a week after it was submerged. The sealant also has held the structural integrity of the aquascape I built with the sealant (photograph attached). Spots that were likely some species of worm or stationary snail on the dead live rock seem to be covered with this coat of white slime that looks like a bacterial culture. Plan on checking parameters tonight to see if it is suitable to start adding inverts/fish/ other macroalgaes tomorrow or soon after. Is the silicone cured underwater now or is it still poisonous to sealife. If it is poisonous, when would it be safe to start adding more complex marine life than pods and macroalgae?
I also used this same silicone sealant to attach a frag to my existing 7month old live rock 3 g tank with a cartridge filter that contains a chemi-pure blue nano bag of activated carbon along with ion-exchange resins. In the same filter cartridge as the chemi pure bags there is Poly-Filter sponge.
Anyways in this tank I refilled the tank with water the second I got the frag sealed down to the rock, which I attempted to do by dumping water on the sealing silicone seal. Only thing I noticed in my tank after this is that the new Stoney pipe coral frag that I used silicone to seal the frag’s plug to the damp live rock in the 3g aquarium seemed to loose a lot of its skin around its core and its polyps would open up if there was light and little water movement for the first couple days. After that the whole frag began to decline and my tuxedo urchin and Scarlett/blue-legged hermits seemed to be attracted to it (and have been slowly eating off the polyps) the rest of my corals have been doing decent, but can tell the tank is still not ideal conditions. I have noticed a huge improvement in water quality sense I have added chemical filtration to my tank in addition to biological and chemical filtration to my tank. I have improved water circulation in the tank by directing the flow of the power head upwards towards the base of the filter intake. Do you think the silicone sealant not being cured caused the coral attached to the frag plug that the silicone sealant was used on to do so poorly in the tank? None of my other corals/other seal life seem to have been affected by this silicone. Should I do the same thing with the silicone sealant that I did with the pipe coral’s frag plug to all of the frag plugs in the tank and to connect some live rock together while the water is drained for cleaning algae? If water is added to speed up sealing process of the silicone and then that silicone seal is submerged once it can hold the weight of the rock structures it is binding together? How toxic will the uncured / partially cured silicone be underwater and will it ever fully cure underwater? How toxic for how long will partially cured silicone be underwater to a reef tank with inverts+coral?

Tamberav · Dec 16, 2021

KingLucy1997 said:
Wait tree limbs or your body’s limbs?

so I am cycling a new 10g tank with dry rock and what used to be live rock but was left in the attic for over 2 winter. I used aquarium safe silicone sealant to aqua scape them together, but the I dumped water on the silicone to try and make the silicone seal faster. Seemed to produce and acetic vinegar smell and also only took a couple seconds of holding the sealant silicone in place before they were able to hold themselves up on their own. At this point I filled the aquarium and started to cycle it. It has been maybe about two weeks of cycling. In that time I added some copepods, macroalgae and the hair algae attached from my 3 gallon reef tank and a red ogo looking macroalgae that is red and some really nice branching tree like patterns. I have started my 30g filter to the 10g tank and added a Nano protein skimmer, turning the protein skimmer on to start the break in process. I’ve been adding Microbacter from brightwell aquatics (40 drops a day mixed into DI/RO water about the volume of the Apocalypse Pods live copepods (1500 copepods 50-2000 microns) jar they came in produced by Algae Barn at an average rate of about 40 drops for the Microbacter solution. I have noticed that some gas particles seem to have been coming off this silicone sealant for about a week after it was submerged. The sealant also has held the structural integrity of the aquascape I built with the sealant (photograph attached). Spots that were likely some species of worm or stationary snail on the dead live rock seem to be covered with this coat of white slime that looks like a bacterial culture. Plan on checking parameters tonight to see if it is suitable to start adding inverts/fish/ other macroalgaes tomorrow or soon after. Is the silicone cured underwater now or is it still poisonous to sealife. If it is poisonous, when would it be safe to start adding more complex marine life than pods and macroalgae?
I also used this same silicone sealant to attach a frag to my existing 7month old live rock 3 g tank with a cartridge filter that contains a chemi-pure blue nano bag of activated carbon along with ion-exchange resins. In the same filter cartridge as the chemi pure bags there is Poly-Filter sponge.
Anyways in this tank I refilled the tank with water the second I got the frag sealed down to the rock, which I attempted to do by dumping water on the sealing silicone seal. Only thing I noticed in my tank after this is that the new Stoney pipe coral frag that I used silicone to seal the frag’s plug to the damp live rock in the 3g aquarium seemed to loose a lot of its skin around its core and its polyps would open up if there was light and little water movement for the first couple days. After that the whole frag began to decline and my tuxedo urchin and Scarlett/blue-legged hermits seemed to be attracted to it (and have been slowly eating off the polyps) the rest of my corals have been doing decent, but can tell the tank is still not ideal conditions. I have noticed a huge improvement in water quality sense I have added chemical filtration to my tank in addition to biological and chemical filtration to my tank. I have improved water circulation in the tank by directing the flow of the power head upwards towards the base of the filter intake. Do you think the silicone sealant not being cured caused the coral attached to the frag plug that the silicone sealant was used on to do so poorly in the tank? None of my other corals/other seal life seem to have been affected by this silicone. Should I do the same thing with the silicone sealant that I did with the pipe coral’s frag plug to all of the frag plugs in the tank and to connect some live rock together while the water is drained for cleaning algae? If water is added to speed up sealing process of the silicone and then that silicone seal is submerged once it can hold the weight of the rock structures it is binding together? How toxic will the uncured / partially cured silicone be underwater and will it ever fully cure underwater? How toxic for how long will partially cured silicone be underwater to a reef tank with inverts+coral?

Wall of text but I would not use silicone for aquascape or frags. It simply will not stick well over time and they make 2 part epoxy for rock aquascaping and super glue gel to attach frags.

Silicone is a poor adhesive except to glass and no reason to subject your tank to the toxic curing process since they make inexpensive products that perform better without subjecting the tank to uncured silicone.

If it’s dry then it’s probably done being toxic (unless it has mold inhibitors) but I would not expect it to hold up to the test of time. It also is not very attractive and with 2 part epoxy sticks… corals, coralline and such can grow on it we’ll just like rock.

KingLucy1997 · Dec 16, 2021

Tamberav said:
Wall of text but I would not use silicone for aquascape or frags. It simply will not stick well over time and they make 2 part epoxy for rock aquascaping and super glue gel to attach frags.

Silicone is a poor adhesive except to glass and no reason to subject your tank to the toxic curing process since they make inexpensive products that perform better without subjecting the tank to uncured silicone.

If it’s dry then it’s probably done being toxic (unless it has mold inhibitors) but I would not expect it to hold up to the test of time. It also is not very attractive and with 2 part epoxy sticks… corals, coralline and such can grow on it we’ll just like rock.

The silicone seal holding the aquascape together has been underwater since I first filled the tank. Does this mean the silicone sealant will never cure underwater and always be toxic so I have to drain the tank water and so all the sealant can be exposed to air and dry out for like a week?

DrZoidburg · Dec 16, 2021

Even the mold inhibitors are not that bad really. Only thing that could be an issue about curing ge 1 would be acetic acid, only thing bad about the others is ammonia off gassing, or whatever they use to start the process. Once it starts to cure it will cure eventually.(even under water) Think super glue. The second you expose it to moist air it starts to cure. I would not use this for frags or aquascape.

KingLucy1997 · Dec 16, 2021

DrZoidburg said:
Even the mold inhibitors are not that bad really. Only thing that could be an issue about curing ge 1 would be acetic acid, only thing bad about the others is ammonia off gassing, or whatever they use to start the process. Once it starts to cure it will cure eventually.(even under water) Think super glue. The second you expose it to moist air it starts to cure. I would not use this for frags or aquascape.

So if I drained the tank so all the silicone sealant would be above water so it could dry out and fully cure (how long will that take?) and then refilled the aquarium once the silicone is fully cured? Would it be safe for to put inverts, fish, and corals after the tank cycles?
Edit: to better phrase my question; is there any benefit like reduction in curing time to drain water from the tank so that the silicone sealant can dry out and cure faster than it would have underwater, thus reducing the toxins I am exposing my tank to?

DrZoidburg · Dec 16, 2021

KingLucy1997 said:
So if I drained the tank so all the silicone sealant would be above water so it could dry out and fully cure (how long will that take?) and then refilled the aquarium once the silicone is fully cured? Would it be safe for to put inverts, fish, and corals after the tank cycles?

Once it's cured its safe, above water go by how long it says plus some. If you had silicone in there for a half year already chances are its cured. It will cure under water, or above.

KingLucy1997 · Dec 16, 2021

DrZoidburg said:
Once it's cured its safe, above water go by how long it says plus some. If you had silicone in there for a half year already chances are its cured. It will cure under water, or above.

Well I just did the aquascaping inside the 10 gallon tank that I filled up with water immediately after about 2 weeks ago. I tried to attach the frag plug to the rock in the first attached pic in my 3g tank I’ve been running for 7 months about 3 weeks ago. No sealants used to make the 3g live rock aquascape (2nd pic). I want (need in the case of the pipe stone coral) to safely glue these to the live rock tonight (3rd pic). Are there any stores open at 1:22 am central time that would sell this safe frag plug glue?