Underperforming Skimmer: How do you know?

[Braves Fan]

Just a thought ,,, I am not sure this means much to others ,, it does to me though I wouldn't want a skimmer that does to good of a job in my mostly SPS tank ,, between the filter socks ,, Bi Weekly water changes ,, the Reef Octopus Skimmer,,, direct feeding the few LPS corals in the tank, 5 Bower's once a week or so ,, my PO4 is staying around 0.03 in the tank ,, I couldn't tell you the last time I ran GFO on the system ,, seems like I have found a balance for PO4 in the system if I could just come up with a way to increase SPS growth

 

[ca1ore]

Skimmer is simply part of my overall nutrient/waste management approach. Since I have no idea exactly how much of a part it plays, I cannot say with any confidence that it is or is not doing it’s job . I’m thrilled for folks that have no doubts about theirs .....

 

[zoomonster]

Like someone else said I started (~1989) with a Saunders hang on air stone skimmer and Saunders ozone at some point shortly thereafter. The skimmer barely worked and blew an air stone about every couple of weeks. Fast forward and many skimmers (and ozonizers) later and I have a reef octopus XP3000int I got about 6 years ago. Easily the best skimmer and pump I ever bought (should be for the price I paid). 100% reliable on a 200g and does the job even with the fact I have a bio pellet reactor adding to the mess. It outputs mass quantities of pure sludge and needs cleaning at minimum weekly not counting liquid in the ~3/4 gallon cup. Only real complaint is most of the mud accumulates in the neck and on the lid but that's true of most skimmers today. I'm also running an Ozotech 200 on it (another flawless piece).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say IMO you can't associate tank nitrate levels with skimmer performance alone. Skimmer can only remove junk if circulation takes it there. The amount of sludge/skimmate it produces is about the only visual indicator of performance.

 

[ReefGeezer]

One should be aware a skimmer only removes +- 1/3 of DOC and TOC present in the tank. ref: http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/dok...ater:filtratie:eiwitafschuimer&rev=1584267235 What is in the cup gives an idea of what is leftover in the tank. The quantity and color of what is in the cup do not tell much about the skimmer performance!

I hear ya and have read the often referenced studies concerning the limits of skimming. I balance what they say against anecdotal data that indicates that skimmers make the water "too clean". My own observations tell me that running a skimmer is advantageous when it's efficiency can be controlled. One of the reasons I really like my skimmer is the simplicity, ease, and precision of the adjustment mechanism. I can set it to run very wet or extremely dry depending what I need it to do.

 

[Simply__J]

I've had a love-hate relationship with my skimmer but I most recently upgraded my bubble magus curve 5's "bubble plate" to a 3D printed cone version. That plus the addition of an airline valve has finally produced frothy/foam and not just light green liquid. Time will tell how effective it is but for now I'm in the love stage of it all.

 

[WallyB]

I agree with the Post Earlier in this thread.

As our Tanks Mature, and Fill up with Corals, Sponges, the Skimmer become less needed (if at all)
It also varies on type of Corals (Some filter feed more than others)

On the contrary, a Skimmer plays a more important Role during a Young Tank Evolution, to maintain better Export.

Here is a comparison on my Two Tanks (Young and Old)

And on the topic of OLD SCHOOL SKimmers. I have 2 OLD EuroReefs (for my Young Tank, I swap as needed..clean later)

NOTHING WORKS as GOOD as my EuroReef (SIMPLE/EFFECTIVE)
(and I tried a few Modern models to replace it...always going back)

-> The Euro is Bulky, AC Pump, Needs venturi Cleaning... but does a GREAT job in Open Sump)
-> Easily to Clean one Piece Acrylic. Hand fits inside. Separate External Pump (for quick swap. Either)

The young Tank Skimmer needs weekly cleaning (preferably twice a week)
The mature Tank, I can clean once a month, or even two-three months.

 

[Joe Rice]

I have a RSM 130D and running the stock skimmer. Seems to work fine only issue is that it’s SOOOOO loud.

How long since you cleaned the pump? My Skimz skimmer was creating quite a racket for months until I opened up the pump, scrubbed it down, soaked it citric acid and scrubbed it again. Now it's almost silent.

 

[JMM744]

Lifereef user here. Just added a 24 inch extension to get better air bubble to water interaction. 300 gallon water with 180 fish only so lots of feeding goes on. Love the old school style and the fact it never gets outdated. With the flange I can make it taller or shorter. Picture taken just after feeding so not foam at that time. Once it settles from additions to the water it’s full of foam.
Jim

 

[esther]

I like my skimz sn167 monster. Started out a little rocky 3 years ago because there was a loose nut right out of the box that prevented adjustment so it was either allowing too much or not enough water to escape to produce a stable height. Also I reinstalled the weir backwards the last time I had it out for cleaning which a whole other issue. Lol
Love the DC pump, air adjustment and the temperamental height adjustment of the Monster

I have the same one on my 220. Love it. Works like a champ!

 

[cezary89]

Where did you get this?


[/QUOTE]

 

[o-townFLA]

I have a fairly young 40B tank (2 months) with a 20L sump and the Reef Octopus 110SSS has been pulling gunk on a steady. So much so that my NO5 reads (0) with a API tester and my PO4 reads (0.01) using a Hanna Phosphate ULR

I did plan ahead during the build by adding (1) MarinePure block, (5) MarinePure Cubes and (1) Brightwell BioBrick to help in the biological side of things

 

[Kevan Sharp]

I just bought the red Sea 300 it's only been running 3 days hope it's just breaking in. But it's not pulling any gunk yet. Hope I don't have that problem.

I think, but am not sure, that the pumps in the red sea product line may not be as good. My main pump died in less than a year. i wasn't smart enough to go back to Red Sea and invoke my warranty.. but, good news is that I am much happier with the pump I now have - as a DC pump, I have lots of flexibiity in adjusting the flow rate.
Then the pump on my Red Sea skimmer started going out. Red Sea was very good to send me a replacement pump, and reminded me I have an RSK 600. This was all purchased just as Red Sea came out with their own Skimmer and it was not marked as to which skimmer it was. But, in the meanwhile, I went ahead and installed my other skimmer (aquamaxx DC) and I instantly fell in love. It is perfectly quiet. My RSK was pretty quiet, but nothing compared to the DC motor on the aquamaxx. The design of the gate valve and the motor controls allows me to easily set the skimmer so i don't have the touchy gate valve of the RSK which was hard to find that 'spot' that skimmed at the right amount. The Aquamaxx has a smaller collection cup, but after using it for a few week, I don't even notice.
Now I have a Red Sea RSK 600, new motor and will need to sell it. when I have time to deal with it.

 

[mike550]

I have a Bubble Magus Curve 7 and now that I have it “dialed in” I seem to be pulling a dry skimmate and bubbles are really good. I made a mistake of cleaning it too well once and it took a while to skim well. So now I just empty the cup. As long as the bubble flow is good I’m going to assume that salt creep isn’t a problem.

But I still can’t tell you with any confidence if my skimmer is doing its job well or not. The question is more about is my skimmer as efficient as it could be

 

[Crustaceon]

When it looks as gross as this, you know it’s working well.

 

[Simply__J]

Where did you get this?

[/QUOTE]
One of the the R2R members designed it shared the files and I had someone print it up for me.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I hear ya and have read the often referenced studies concerning the limits of skimming. I balance what they say against anecdotal data that indicates that skimmers make the water "too clean". My own observations tell me that running a skimmer is advantageous when it's efficiency can be controlled. One of the reasons I really like my skimmer is the simplicity, ease, and precision of the adjustment mechanism. I can set it to run very wet or extremely dry depending what I need it to do.

A skimmer works selective, it may make the water "too clean", removing too much of some essential building materials but leaving others, creating an unbalance. A skimmer may be responsible for increasing nitrate and phosphate levels as the foam carries very little inorganics. As a good skimmer removes part ( +- 30%) of DOC and TOC and does this very selective, leaving Hydrophilic and Polar compounds ( +- 65% of DOC) and does this constantly, some essential building materials may not be sufficiently available for using up what is left over after it is remineralized. Dry or wet?

 

[Silent]

I feel like it pulls out more than I put in.

 

[ReefGeezer]

A skimmer works selective, it may make the water "too clean", removing too much of some essential building materials but leaving others, creating an unbalance. A skimmer may be responsible for increasing nitrate and phosphate levels as the foam carries very little inorganics. As a good skimmer removes part ( +- 30%) of DOC and TOC and does this very selective, leaving Hydrophilic and Polar compounds ( +- 65% of DOC) and does this constantly, some essential building materials may not be sufficiently available for using up what is left over after it is remineralized. Dry or wet?

Every form of filtration has drawbacks. Like anything else, how the strengths and weaknesses are managed determines the effectiveness of piece of equipment being used. This thread is more about skimmer performance. Regardless of what skimmers do, or do not, remove, some skimmers are better, different, more or less efficient, more adjustable, more stable, better suited for certain situations, and etc. than others.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

As the purpose of a skimmer is removing organic waste this way limiting remineralisation, it does this very poorly. Spinning wheel, venturi, normal countercurrent using an airstone, 25% removal, or 32%, it does not change much. To quote Feldman and Maers: "Between protein skimmers, there is a much greater variation in purchase price than variation in the ability to remove TOC."( Feldman&Maers2010)
First one has to determine what can be considered to be "underperformance". Let us say <25%. But how someone may know how much is 25% ? Wasn't that the question to be answered?

 

[ReefGeezer]

As the purpose of a skimmer is removing organic waste this way limiting remineralisation, it does this very poorly. Spinning wheel, venturi, normal countercurrent using an airstone, 25% removal, or 32%, it does not change much. To quote Feldman and Maers: "Between protein skimmers, there is a much greater variation in purchase price than variation in the ability to remove TOC."( Feldman&Maers2010)
First one has to determine what can be considered to be "underperformance". Let us say <25%. But how someone may know how much is 25% ? Wasn't that the question to be answered?

It is interesting how long ago this study actually occurred, how many times it has been quoted in reefing forums in the last 10 years, and how many reefers still use skimmers. "Underperformance" in this discussion is relative to optimal theoretical performance. "Optimal" being defined as the best expected result given specific conditions or circumstances. It could also be relative to performance versus other skimmers. Either way, Feldman/Maers from 2009 is know by most, is figured in the mix, and may not be relevant to the discussion. That said, I will agree that quality skimmers of roughly the same size are all pretty much equal & that not much has happened in their design since 2009. Performance variations may well be a function of installation, adjustment, and maintenance.