Underpowered return pump causing all these problems?

[starypotter]

Hi everyone,
I have a store bought reef ready tank, one of the Aqueons that has the big overflow in the middle for the plumbing, DT is 75 gallon, sump is a 40 breeder.

Problem one- Water from return nozzle is colder than DT
When I bought my return pump, I miscalculated the head, I only calculated to the bottom of the tank, not the top to where the water is actually released, newbie mistake. So my return is quite weak (1022GPH), it really doesn't do anything at all in terms of flow and the water moves so slowly through the sump it's painful but I've been making due but recently I noticed when I was playing around in there that the water coming from the return is much cooler than the rest of the water in DT.

Problem two maybe not directly related but relevant- Where do I put my heaters?
I have a 200 and 300 watt heater, one in the sump, one in the DT and I'm starting to think that all of my problems come back to my underpowered pump. I used to have one of my heaters in the overflow box, but when I needed to fix the drain I noticed that the water in there was hot so I quickly removed the heater from the overflow box and it's been just sitting in my DT ever since. The other heater is in the entry chamber of the sump.
I don't want to have them both in the same location because on occasion I'll power down the return for a while to feed my corals and make sure all of that water circulates for a while with just my wavemakers, and a few times I've forgotten to turn it back on so I don't want that to happen then have one tank drop in temperature.

Problem three- I know my sump isn't supposed to smell this bad??? ;Dead
There's algae everywhere in my sump. I have no idea what kind, it's sort of like GHA but it gets much longer than I've seen it in DT it's growing EVERYWHERE, yet when I try to put ulva in there it dies. I also have some LR rubble in there, and I pulled out some peices the other day to glue frags to and oh boy did those rocks smell.

I'm thinking I'll get a new return pump, go from 1022 to 1876 (I'm on a Quiet One Pro budget) do you think that'll help with these problems? Do you think that'll be enough of an upgrade? Are there any other decent and cheap pumps that'll be powered enough for this? I'm also hoping it'll help to eliminate a couple deadspots I have in the tank.

 

[ndrwater]

Big flow through the sump isn't a big deal at all. You didn't mention a skimmer...
As for the heaters, I would have both in the sump unless the display gets super cold, which it shouldn't.
I would have more flow IN the tank than through the sump.
I would also look into the Nutrient levels to see what's going on with the algae..

 

[starypotter]

Big flow through the sump isn't a big deal at all. You didn't mention a skimmer...
As for the heaters, I would have both in the sump unless the display gets super cold, which it shouldn't.
I would have more flow IN the tank than through the sump.
I would also look into the Nutrient levels to see what's going on with the algae..

I have a skimmer, a Curve 5, it's been running back into the sump for a while because I added Reef Flux for bryopsis and am begining to remove it now.

I do have the ability to have a good flow in the tank at least, I have two EFlux 2100 GPH wavemakers in there that really tear things up if I put them too high, I'm still trying to find a good amount and direction on them.

As for the heaters my concern was that it's taking so long from the entry chamber to the exit chamber that the water is cooling and that's why it's coming out cooler than DT but that's just an idea I didn't test that or anything.

My nitrates have been at 0 for weeks now, and my phosphate has been high. At one point my API test kit was reading 5.0 PPM, and yes that is typed correctly but API so take it with a grain of salt. I added phosguard and it's not around .25 with API, I'm getting a redsea kit soon so hopefully I'll get more accurate readings. I've actually got a ton of cyano and what I'm assuming is other bacteria, there's a lot of stuff floating in the sump, cyano is on the rocks in DT, and well this is the sump. Ulva is growing quite well in DT, and mangrove roots are growing.
It's rather hard to tell just how covered in gunk everything is but as a reference that sand is white, and skimmer is coming out this weekend when I can hose it all out outside.

 

[vanpire]

Hi everyone,
I have a store bought reef ready tank, one of the Aqueons that has the big overflow in the middle for the plumbing, DT is 75 gallon, sump is a 40 breeder.

Problem one- Water from return nozzle is colder than DT
When I bought my return pump, I miscalculated the head, I only calculated to the bottom of the tank, not the top to where the water is actually released, newbie mistake. So my return is quite weak (1022GPH), it really doesn't do anything at all in terms of flow and the water moves so slowly through the sump it's painful but I've been making due but recently I noticed when I was playing around in there that the water coming from the return is much cooler than the rest of the water in DT.

Problem two maybe not directly related but relevant- Where do I put my heaters?
I have a 200 and 300 watt heater, one in the sump, one in the DT and I'm starting to think that all of my problems come back to my underpowered pump. I used to have one of my heaters in the overflow box, but when I needed to fix the drain I noticed that the water in there was hot so I quickly removed the heater from the overflow box and it's been just sitting in my DT ever since. The other heater is in the entry chamber of the sump.
I don't want to have them both in the same location because on occasion I'll power down the return for a while to feed my corals and make sure all of that water circulates for a while with just my wavemakers, and a few times I've forgotten to turn it back on so I don't want that to happen then have one tank drop in temperature.

Problem three- I know my sump isn't supposed to smell this bad??? ;Dead
There's algae everywhere in my sump. I have no idea what kind, it's sort of like GHA but it gets much longer than I've seen it in DT it's growing EVERYWHERE, yet when I try to put ulva in there it dies. I also have some LR rubble in there, and I pulled out some peices the other day to glue frags to and oh boy did those rocks smell.

I'm thinking I'll get a new return pump, go from 1022 to 1876 (I'm on a Quiet One Pro budget) do you think that'll help with these problems? Do you think that'll be enough of an upgrade? Are there any other decent and cheap pumps that'll be powered enough for this? I'm also hoping it'll help to eliminate a couple deadspots I have in the tank.

You have got to be kidding me. 1022 GPH or even 800 GPH is more than enough for a 75 gallon display.

My tank is 300 gallon with a 120 sump and I have 1,200 GPH return. My fans, heaters and all dosing is in the sump. Works just fine.

 

[KStatefan]

I do not understand how 1022 GPH thru a 40 gallon sump could be painfully slow.

 

[Mpierce]

Return flow is not particularly important. As long as you are turning over your display at least 3-4x an hour it is fine. So with a 75g display, 300gph after head loss is plenty. I have right around 300gph on my 80g display, both heaters in the sump, and in the winter I set my house at 64 degrees when I am not home. Bigger return pump is just wasting electricity. The only reason I see to oversize a return is if you are using it as a feed pump for reactors and such as well.

 

[trio91]

That smell is probably coming from things dying off the rocks. Or a lot of waste accumulating in there. A bag of carbon will take care of the smell.

That skimmer looks like it needs to be cleaned too. Is it getting direct sunlight from a window or fuge light? May wanna make a plastic shield for it to block out light.

The return pump should be ok unless it was your main source of water flow....which it isn't, so the cold water issue is from the heater. Maybe turn it up a bit? What brand is it? Heaters tend to have a swing varience so you may need to adjust. It should tell you what that is on the packaging.

 

[starypotter]

You have got to be kidding me. 1022 GPH or even 800 GPH is more than enough for a 75 gallon display.

My tank is 300 gallon with a 120 sump and I have 1,200 GPH return. My fans, heaters and all dosing is in the sump. Works just fine.

I do not understand how 1022 GPH thru a 40 gallon sump could be painfully slow.

Return flow is not particularly important. As long as you are turning over your display at least 3-4x an hour it is fine. So with a 75g display, 300gph after head loss is plenty. I have right around 300gph on my 80g display, both heaters in the sump, and in the winter I set my house at 64 degrees when I am not home. Bigger return pump is just wasting electricity. The only reason I see to oversize a return is if you are using it as a feed pump for reactors and such as well.

I guess I wasn't clear enough in my original post, my pump is RATED 1022gph. That does not mean I am actually getting 1022gph because I miscalculated the head. I just tested it and my ACTUAL gph coming out of the return is only 60 gph. It took a full minute to fill up a one gallon jug with the return nozzle. My tank has exactly 75 gallons in the system so it's taking an hour and fifteen minutes to turn the water over once.

Edit: with that said I just went to play around in there because 60gph sounded really really off from 1022 and I was wondering how much head there would need to be to kill the flow like that and after removing my pump to exmaine it it turned out that it had a dial to adjust the flow and now it's pumping so fast that my water isn't moving /quickly/ enough through the sump to fill the return chamber back up. So it was actually moving that slow but it also wasn't at it's full potental. Seeing as everything is now dusted up I think my problem is solved...

 

[starypotter]

That smell is probably coming from things dying off the rocks. Or a lot of waste accumulating in there. A bag of carbon will take care of the smell.

That skimmer looks like it needs to be cleaned too. Is it getting direct sunlight from a window or fuge light? May wanna make a plastic shield for it to block out light.

The return pump should be ok unless it was your main source of water flow....which it isn't, so the cold water issue is from the heater. Maybe turn it up a bit? What brand is it? Heaters tend to have a swing varience so you may need to adjust. It should tell you what that is on the packaging.

Awesome I'll put some carbon back in now that I'm finishing my algae treatment. Why would something on the rock be dying though?
And the skimmer has been in full blast of the fuge light so I've got to find a way to cover that up. One of my classes was canceled today so I was able to take it outside and clean it up so I'm starting fresh now at least.
My heated is an Aqueon 200 watt and an Aquatop 300 watt. Aqueon is in the DT, Aquatop in the fuge. I frequently pull the 300 watt one out to heat up my water bucket whenever I'm going to do a water change and it heats up just fine, my guess is now that turning over once per hour just isn't enough.

 

[vanpire]

If you pump is a good one with 1022GPH with no head, there might be somethings you can do before spending money on a new pump which is pretty expensive

Use a larger return pipe, use flexibile PVC to eliminate 90 elbows. How many feet up are you pumping water?

 

[trio91]

Awesome I'll put some carbon back in now that I'm finishing my algae treatment. Why would something on the rock be dying though?
And the skimmer has been in full blast of the fuge light so I've got to find a way to cover that up. One of my classes was canceled today so I was able to take it outside and clean it up so I'm starting fresh now at least.
My heated is an Aqueon 200 watt and an Aquatop 300 watt. Aqueon is in the DT, Aquatop in the fuge. I frequently pull the 300 watt one out to heat up my water bucket whenever I'm going to do a water change and it heats up just fine, my guess is now that turning over once per hour just isn't enough.

If it was live rock, could be something like sponges or algae maybe that could've died....maybe from a lack of lighting or the cold water temp but I can't really say.

If it's rated that high, and only pumping out that little it could be clogged or maybe the impeller is damaged so I'd open it up and take a look. But that's me just taking a guess.

But like @vanpire mentioned it could be restricted. Maybe there is a clog in the line or something.

 

[starypotter]

If you pump is a good one with 1022GPH with no head, there might be somethings you can do before spending money on a new pump which is pretty expensive

Use a larger return pipe, use flexibile PVC to eliminate 90 elbows. How many feet up are you pumping water?

I am using a braided vinyl no elbows except the top where it turns into loclines. I'm glad everyone was questioning it because it made me take a closer look at my pump, now I have a sandstorm and a canyon. No more dead spots at least!!

 

[starypotter]

If it was live rock, could be something like sponges or algae maybe that could've died....maybe from a lack of lighting or the cold water temp but I can't really say.

If it's rated that high, and only pumping out that little it could be clogged or maybe the impeller is damaged so I'd open it up and take a look. But that's me just taking a guess.

But like @vanpire mentioned it could be restricted. Maybe there is a clog in the line or something.

It was dry rubble, it did have a layer of sand on it though so maybe that did something? Thanks for prompting me to look further especially before I bought a new pump!

 

[trio91]

so

It was dry rubble, it did have a layer of sand on it though so maybe that did something? Thanks for prompting me to look further especially before I bought a new pump!

so was it in the pump or in the line?

 

[starypotter]

Oh there's an edit to post #8, and I have no idea what the GPH is now but I can tell you that I won't be able to calculate it with a gallon jug that's for sure.

 

[starypotter]

so

so was it in the pump or in the line?

The pump had a physical dial to block the intake and it was spun to the lowest setting, I really didn't look further than that.

 

[trio91]

The pump had a physical dial to block the intake and it was spun to the lowest setting, I really didn't look further than that.

aahh ok well i hope all else works out

good luck bud

 

[starypotter]

aahh ok well i hope all else works out

good luck bud

Thanks!

 

[alton]

What is funny is if you would of never asked the question, you probably would of never figured it out.

 

[starypotter]

What is funny is if you would of never asked the question, you probably would of never figured it out.

Exactly! That's why I try not to talk myself out of asking what I might consider stupid questions because you never know what might be said that might make something click. Asking a question saved me a hundred dollars in this case.