urenoma marium worth restarting over?

rawbomb

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My tank was newly when a friend gave me 8 chromies as a tank warming gift. Sadly they brought in what I now know is urenoma marium and velvet that wiped out about 80% of my fish. The tank is going to be fallow today after I bring the survivors to a qt tank and start them on copper but is it worth bleaching the entire system to get rid of the urenoma?

The tank doesn't have any corals or inverts left but the rock has been cycled now for about 10months from dry rock.
 
My tank was newly when a friend gave me 8 chromies as a tank warming gift. Sadly they brought in what I now know is urenoma marium and velvet that wiped out about 80% of my fish. The tank is going to be fallow today after I bring the survivors to a qt tank and start them on copper but is it worth bleaching the entire system to get rid of the urenoma?

The tank doesn't have any corals or inverts left but the rock has been cycled now for about 10months from dry rock.
If the tank is empty except for dry rock and you leave it that way for a couple of months, you will have essentially started over. Just be careful to qt all new additions from now on and you'll be fine. Also, consider adding an oversized UV sterilizer to help protect against future problems. I was able to beat ich in my tank by doing nothing other than running a big UV sterilizer. My Achilles and Hippo Tang (well known ich magnets) have been fat and healthy ever since.
 
If the tank is empty except for dry rock and you leave it that way for a couple of months, you will have essentially started over. Just be careful to qt all new additions from now on and you'll be fine. Also, consider adding an oversized UV sterilizer to help protect against future problems. I was able to beat ich in my tank by doing nothing other than running a big UV sterilizer. My Achilles and Hippo Tang (well known ich magnets) have been fat and healthy ever since.
The tank is still running with 10month old rock just fishless. I have read that urenoma can't be killed by the fallow period and I would need to restart to kill it off but I don't know if it's bad enough to warrant it.

I do have a massively oversized pentair unit on the tank. It's rated for a 600g tank and it's on my 200g but it did nothing to stop the velvet.
 
I believe you can not get rid of Urenoma with a fallow period. Without a restart, you just cant keep chromis. Velvet, I am not sure of the fallow period. A UV does not rid the tank of ich or velvet, but it does help manage it
 
The awful advice comes surging in. Trying to be helpful or not, what he/she reads in print as fact can cause a lot of headache.

Uronema can’t be killed via time elapsed, copper, supposedly a few chemicals which I really question even work.

Only way to get uro out is by bleaching and rebooting. However, why do all that, if you add chromis, you will just get it all over again.

Each week lfs bring in on average 100 fish, 5-10 being chromis with uro, doesn’t really effect anyone else , except maybe anthias.

Again, please read a lot, a lot of guys in here have advice for everyone, where a month ago they were asking how to measure salinity.

I don’t have all the answers, but to answer yours, uro can’t be killed by fallow , it why try to kill it if it doesn’t effect others and ultimately will get back on the tank via any new fish down the road
 
The only way to get rid of uronema is bleaching. This unfortunate experience stresses out the importance of quarantine and observation. Contrary to various beliefs, all fish can be infected by uronema although some fish like chromis and anthias tend to be more prone. Velvet will starve out during a fallow period.

If your tank is new and bleaching is feasible, it’s perhaps a good course of action - but only if in the future you plan to observe all fish and quarantine. If not then remove the fish and run the tank fallow to at least eradicate velvet. Going forward you should not be at the minimum chromis or anthias. Hopefully your other fish won’t succumb but there are no guarantees.
 
The only way to get rid of uronema is bleaching. This unfortunate experience stresses out the importance of quarantine and observation. Contrary to various beliefs, all fish can be infected by uronema although some fish like chromis and anthias tend to be more prone. Velvet will starve out during a fallow period.

If your tank is new and bleaching is feasible, it’s perhaps a good course of action - but only if in the future you plan to observe all fish and quarantine. If not then remove the fish and run the tank fallow to at least eradicate velvet. Going forward you should not be at the minimum chromis or anthias. Hopefully your other fish won’t succumb but there are no guarantees.
There are currently 4 chromies that pulled through both the velvet and uronema so would that mean it's been cleared or that perhaps I was wrong?

I have setup a permanent QT and will treat everyone from now on. I had gotten away with it for the last 10yrs but lesson learned.
 
The awful advice comes surging in. Trying to be helpful or not, what he/she reads in print as fact can cause a lot of headache.

Uronema can’t be killed via time elapsed, copper, supposedly a few chemicals which I really question even work.

Only way to get uro out is by bleaching and rebooting. However, why do all that, if you add chromis, you will just get it all over again.

Each week lfs bring in on average 100 fish, 5-10 being chromis with uro, doesn’t really effect anyone else , except maybe anthias.

Again, please read a lot, a lot of guys in here have advice for everyone, where a month ago they were asking how to measure salinity.

I don’t have all the answers, but to answer yours, uro can’t be killed by fallow , it why try to kill it if it doesn’t effect others and ultimately will get back on the tank via any new fish down the road
Thank you for the info. I don't really care about chromies going forward but do plan on keeping anthias. If copper really doesn't clear it and it's so common now it seems like a forgone conclusion that I'll get it even putting the fish through a full copper qt over 4 weeks.
 
I don’t have all the answers, but to answer yours, uro can’t be killed by fallow , it why try to kill it if it doesn’t effect others and ultimately will get back on the tank via any new fish down the road

Uro can absolutely affect other fish species outside of chromis and Anthias, just these seem to be the most susceptible to it.

@EmdeReef has given solid advice. Personally I would bleach the tank as hard as it is. I wouldn't be able to run one knowing there was an issue present. It is "Relatively" new with no coral so not the most difficult route to go.

A great read on Uronema :)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/
 
Uro can absolutely affect other fish species outside of chromis and Anthias, just these seem to be the most susceptible to it.

@EmdeReef has given solid advice. Personally I would bleach the tank as hard as it is. I wouldn't be able to run one knowing there was an issue present. It is "Relatively" new with no coral so not the most difficult route to go.

A great read on Uronema :)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/
That sounds like a sound plan. The tank is actually completely empty other than velvet and uronema so not too bad there.

Now I just have to find a procedure for how to properly bleach the tank and restart it. It's been a painful and expensive lesson to learn I'll tell you that.
 
Uronema seems to impact more fish today than it ever did before. We treat it with metroplex up front (which also handles brooklynella).

Fish most commonly affected are chromis. Then butterflies (particularly copperband, pearlscale, etc.) and anthias as well. Recently, centropyge (dwarf angels) are more affected by it, and I've even seen it in some wrasses. @Humblefish has looked at some assumed "spinal injuries" in wrasse and found that internal uronema was present on the spine itself upon autopsy, so it's hypothesized that it's a bigger issue than we thought. However...

I personally don't think it poses much of a threat to a tank full of healthy inhabitants. It seems to run rampant through new additions, particularly of those groups of fish. A healthy, established fish in a tank seems to be "immune" to it. In practice, I've never seen uronema suddenly appear on a healthy, established fish in a tank. Even existing chromis seem unaffected, typically.

So what do you do with this information? Well, I don't know. I don't personally worry about uronema for anything other than new additions. I do run all coral, inverts, rock, etc. through a 72 day fallow period, but I certainly don't bleach it (the only way I know to completely remove it). So for that, I probably introduce it frequently.

I treat all new fish as if they have it to be safe. I do this more to keep that new fish and others sharing the quarantine with it safe from uronema. Don't misunderstand, uronema is a NASTY condition. It's very deadly, but again, for whatever reason I've not seen it harm well-established fish, even of typically vulnerable species, say 3-6 months after addition.

If you want to be 100% safe, bleach and proceed -- especially since you're in early stages. However, if you're not prepared to keep it out of the tank long-term and prophylactically treat fish for it before entering your tank properly going forward, I'd say it's a waste of effort. Remember, you'd have to bleach everything wet that entered your tank from now on, as well -- to be 100% safe. Perhaps it's an unlikely event that you could get uronema from inverts, rock, or coral -- but it's certainly possible. if you bleach, obviously, you'll kill whatever you're adding too, most likely. So even in my own tanks, I don't worry about my resident fish being impacted by it.

Admittedly though, I've learned the hard way over the past 18 months how much more virulent it is these days. Whether that's because of the overall weakened condition of the fish we receive these days or because the uronema itself is truly more virulent -- I do not know.

Velvet's recommended fallow period is 60 days. We extend to 72 to cover ich as well.
 
4ford...I agree with most of this, I am no expert, but what really stuck out to me was when you said...”what to do with this info..don’t really know”

There is no concrete or definitive way to get rid of it, so my issue is why bleach everything (which isn’t great for pumps, seals, environment, the air you breathe, etc especially if there is. I sure fire way to prevent it from getting back in.

You hit it on the head, corals, weather qt’d for 72 days or 172 days, can still introduce it at some point, especially from an active reef tank with any of the aforementioned fish that may carry it but are strong enough to fight it off.

I don’t think bleaching should be a bullet in the chamber, cause in most cases, with a reef tank, with corals, will put people out of the hobby.

Metroplex, at least the kind I used from seachem, did not clear uro, I dosed it on the higher side, ran it linger, and still saw a trio of chromis die of uro.

To me answer isn’t simple, but treat what you can and know works, especially diseases that will hit everyone, ich velvet flukes, and stay away from known sufferers of uro. Chromis especially.

I’d venture to say 90 percent of tanks have it without realizing it, and if it gets on corals, wel you can’t bleach those, so it’s more around then we wanna believe.

I suppose formalin works too, but again, if it’s in coral frags, then your beat anyway. Plus formalin may cut
Down on lifespan to begin with.
 
Curious thought here... in the Dino threads, I’ve seen where people dose their entire tanks with Seachem MetroPlex (metronidazole). Metro is known to treat Uronema. With a fallow tank with no coral, inverts or fish, just live rock, is treating the entire tank with 2 scoops per 10 gallons for three weeks (as directed in the Seachem instructions) then removing it with carbon after treatment a viable solution?

Again, I’m only asking cuz I’ve seen whole tank treatments using MetroPlex in the Dino treatment threads.

*Edit - just saw the prior post where it was mentioned that MetroPlex didn’t work in that particular case for Uronema treatment. :(
 
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This hobby is more of a marathon than a sprint. Couple ways you can look at this.
1. Fish are secondary to coral, so you keep on trucking knowing urenoma will always be in your system. Some fish you just won't be able to keep healthy. Coral focused tank.
2. You bleach and restart.

There are enough hurdles in this hobby, definitely don't need urenoma on day one. I would probably just restart. The only circumstance I would NOT restart is if I already have a ton of coral and fish that are doing okay and don't want to go through the headache of selling livestock that I know has urenoma. In which case I would get a monster UV sterilizer as one of the management tools.

As time goes on I am sure we will find the silver bullet for urenoma, but it may take a very long time.
 
Bleach I guess is the only way to be certain.

Wouldn’t be my way, reason being isn’t the bleach and an inability to kill it, which it will, but going forward, it will get in again, in a pieces of coral, invert, etc and most likely a fish unless you formalin the heck out of them, and are prepared to replace those fish in a year or two.

I’m all for disease free, but when you can’t orevent a particular one that gets in, why put the effort in that specific one?
 
Uronema seems to impact more fish today than it ever did before. We treat it with metroplex up front (which also handles brooklynella).

Fish most commonly affected are chromis. Then butterflies (particularly copperband, pearlscale, etc.) and anthias as well. Recently, centropyge (dwarf angels) are more affected by it, and I've even seen it in some wrasses. @Humblefish has looked at some assumed "spinal injuries" in wrasse and found that internal uronema was present on the spine itself upon autopsy, so it's hypothesized that it's a bigger issue than we thought. However...

I personally don't think it poses much of a threat to a tank full of healthy inhabitants. It seems to run rampant through new additions, particularly of those groups of fish. A healthy, established fish in a tank seems to be "immune" to it. In practice, I've never seen uronema suddenly appear on a healthy, established fish in a tank. Even existing chromis seem unaffected, typically.

So what do you do with this information? Well, I don't know. I don't personally worry about uronema for anything other than new additions. I do run all coral, inverts, rock, etc. through a 72 day fallow period, but I certainly don't bleach it (the only way I know to completely remove it). So for that, I probably introduce it frequently.

I treat all new fish as if they have it to be safe. I do this more to keep that new fish and others sharing the quarantine with it safe from uronema. Don't misunderstand, uronema is a NASTY condition. It's very deadly, but again, for whatever reason I've not seen it harm well-established fish, even of typically vulnerable species, say 3-6 months after addition.

If you want to be 100% safe, bleach and proceed -- especially since you're in early stages. However, if you're not prepared to keep it out of the tank long-term and prophylactically treat fish for it before entering your tank properly going forward, I'd say it's a waste of effort. Remember, you'd have to bleach everything wet that entered your tank from now on, as well -- to be 100% safe. Perhaps it's an unlikely event that you could get uronema from inverts, rock, or coral -- but it's certainly possible. if you bleach, obviously, you'll kill whatever you're adding too, most likely. So even in my own tanks, I don't worry about my resident fish being impacted by it.

Admittedly though, I've learned the hard way over the past 18 months how much more virulent it is these days. Whether that's because of the overall weakened condition of the fish we receive these days or because the uronema itself is truly more virulent -- I do not know.

Velvet's recommended fallow period is 60 days. We extend to 72 to cover ich as well.
Just to be certain, if I still currently have 4 surviving Chromies in the tank does that mean that urenoma is still active? From the way people have described it they should've basically been wiped out altogether by it. Especially since they were fighting off velvet as well.

The tank is in hyposalinity right now running 1.009 though I have read that urenoma is effected at all by hypo.
 
Wouldn’t be my way, reason being isn’t the bleach and an inability to kill it, which it will, but going forward, it will get in again, in a pieces of coral, invert, etc and most likely a fish unless you formalin the heck out of them, and are prepared to replace those fish in a year or two.

I’m all for disease free, but when you can’t orevent a particular one that gets in, why put the effort in that specific one?
I see your point now. I could just clean up the tank, bring up the salinity and just keep going. Atleast I know my biofilter is working great.
 
Just to be certain, if I still currently have 4 surviving Chromies in the tank does that mean that urenoma is still active? From the way people have described it they should've basically been wiped out altogether by it. Especially since they were fighting off velvet as well.

The tank is in hyposalinity right now running 1.009 though I have read that urenoma is effected at all by hypo.
They could certainly perish, but from uronema that’s generally in the first month, three months at the most. After that it’s likely aggression between them.

I don’t think uronema is ever “dormant”, rather healthy fish seem to be highly resistant to it.
 
They could certainly perish, but from uronema that’s generally in the first month, three months at the most. After that it’s likely aggression between them.

I don’t think uronema is ever “dormant”, rather healthy fish seem to be highly resistant to it.
These chromies started as a set of 8 and 4 died within the first week of which 2 showed the sores I've seen associated with urenoma. As of now they have been in the tank for about a 6 weeks after the last death and are alive. They also seemed to recover from the velvet and will be going into copper asap.
 

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