Uronema becoming big problem these days? (Aside from chromis)

[Humblefish]

The evidence is that tomonts are impervious to formalin. Trophonts, similarly, are not killed by formalin but are driven off the fish with sufficient exposure time.

Do you have some material I can read regarding how effective formalin is at eradicating/driving off trophonts?

This source primarily discusses using it to "control" parasites: http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/Use-of-Formalin-to-Control-Fish-Parasites.pdf

 

[Sir Chris]

[emoji3525][emoji3525][emoji3525]

I offered my local petco $20 for a YT with HLLE. It looked really bad, abd wasn’t eating. They refused, sticking with the $60 tag, because “that’s the sku, and it’ll perk up in a bigger tank” Three days later, they offered it fir $30, but it was motionless in the tank when we went to bag it. Didn’t even move when the guy picked it up. I’m pretty sure they just tossed it in the trash. Disgusting.

Is $180 typical for that size purple? I have a 3” reserved for $85

I own a yellow tang from petco that had velvet and looked ich at the end. I’m in constantly for CUC, they offered it for 20$ if I’d take it.. a lot of the time how you talk to someone will set the stage. Acting upidy or the YOUR KILLING THINGS will make them not want to “help”.

More flies with honey thing. Off topic but it just hurts reading flaming someone then expecting they are giving.

When I purchase a fish I will ask them to hold said fish for 2 days and stop in and ask for a feeding. They are willing if they are confident in the stocks!

Gimme that fish usually will start with issues alone

 

[Fastpitch]

Do you have some material I can read regarding how effective formalin is at eradicating/driving off trophonts?

This source primarily discusses using it to "control" parasites: http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/Use-of-Formalin-to-Control-Fish-Parasites.pdf

Formalin scares the crap out of me. But on the other hand so does a freshwater dip.

Definately interesting for us novices to watch the titans battle.;Punch

 

[crstlblu2002]

I too have noticed many more sick fish these days even from divers den on occasion. I qt all my fish no matter where I get them. I've had great success in qt (granted this is a fully cycled constantly running qt) with dropping the salinity down to around 1.015 , adding cupramine at a reduced doseage to read 0.3 mg/l. I leave that for 2 weeks and if they are eating also do kanaplex, metroplex and focus in frozen food. Then when cupramine treatment is up I do prazi pro. Depending on how the fish looks and is doing I may do a round of furan 2 after that. When in done treating (usually about 4 weeks sometime longer I remove all medication remaining and gradually increase salinity to match the dt then transfer them over. I have only lost one fish since treating them this way. Before I was only doing cupramine and it just wasn't enough to know out bacterial and uronema issues.

 

[Paul B]

Why doesn't @Paul B have any of these problems?

You know why, I know why and my fish know why.

 

[Trickman2]

Wow. I am starting to realize I am way out of my league. I am currently in my second quarantine with 5 (now 4 chromis) and a coral beauty.

I think I am regretting ever buying these chromis. At first I thought my first loss was stress from the GC + cupramine together. @Humblefish advised it was probably uronema and to treat immediately with metro. Never guessed that since the fish looked great until his final moments.

Now tonight, I look in on them, and two more have a strange shadow color (almost grey) on the exact tail half of their body. I have metro on order but wont arrive for two days.

So now I threw third round of GC in. What else can I do? Do I really want to put my DT at risk for these diseased vermin? What a headache.;Sour

Interesting, I always feed metronidazol at least for the first few months upon new fishes. Found my losses went down a lot. I have now started QTing all my fish after Velvet wiped out my dads 90 gallon. I was able to save a couple from his system. My 280 gallon system has many high end fish now and I am not willing to accept the risk of not QTing. Still a firm believer in metro and focus. Since it was introduced into the hobby...I will say I have not lost a single fish to Ich once it became available. Ich doesn’t scare me but velvet does and all these new diseases rolling in.

 

[4FordFamily]

You know why, I know why and my fish know why.

Because you don’t add many new fish, have almost no fish that are susceptible to these types of parasites— namely tangs and angels, occasionally butterflies (although once established butterflies are often hardy), and you have better husbandry than most? ;Troll

 

[Trickman2]

Since this is becoming a popular uronema thread, below is what uronema will look like under a microscope if you take a skin scrape:

I will post this info to the uronema sticky as well, when I update it.

What microscope do you recommend? Anything in a reasonable price range?

 

[Reefahholic]

You know why, I know why and my fish know why.

Paul...what’s your logic as to why you’re successful? I missed it.

 

[Trickman2]

Here’s some clear video of Uronema.

I think we need a thread on reasonably microscopes. There are a lot out there and lots of different options. Basic equipment and supplies needed.

Also, it would be great if we could get a thread on basic microscope lessons. Procedures to scrape a fish, etc. Maybe Reefahholic could help out with this and make some good YouTube videos.

I know It would be extremely beneficial to me to understand best practices and how to gather information.

 

[Reefahholic]

As far as microscopes go. You can get something like this and see the parasites. Under $300

https://www.amscope.com/compound-microscopes/student-compound-microscope-40x-400x.html

 

[Paul B]

Because you don’t add many new fish, have almost no fish that are susceptible to these types of parasites— namely tangs and angels, occasionally butterflies (although once established butterflies are often hardy), and you have better husbandry than most? ;Troll

And I thought it was just my good looks. As for Husbandry, I have been a husband for 45 years. (I think I added 8 fish since I moved here 5 months ago but I would never add a fish that is susceptible to anything. Especially all the Queen Anthius I have )

Paul...what’s your logic as to why you’re successful? I missed it.

You couldn't possibly have missed it. I never shut up, post a few times a day and even wrote a book. Next I will rent the Good Year Blimp and put it on the side of the thing.

There are two ways to do this hobby. Sterilize everything, quarantine, medicate, dip and then go on disease forums, or keep your fish immune.
Those are the choices. Of course the other choice is to be very good looking like Humblefish ;Smuggrin

Or you can read this thread from 3 years ago. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-methodoligies-to-keep-a-reef-tank.226995/

 

[4FordFamily]

And I thought it was just my good looks. As for Husbandry, I have been a husband for 45 years. (I think I added 8 fish since I moved here 5 months ago but I would never add a fish that is susceptible to anything. Especially all the Queen Anthius I have )



You couldn't possibly have missed it. I never shut up, post a few times a day and even wrote a book. Next I will rent the Good Year Blimp and put it on the side of the thing.

There are two ways to do this hobby. Sterilize everything, quarantine, medicate, dip and then go on disease forums, or keep your fish immune.
Those are the choices. Of course the other choice is to be very good looking like Humblefish ;Smuggrin

Slight correction for the casual reader - immunity is not achievable, but temporary resistance is. Whether temporary means a month or for 45 years, impossible to know for sure. But true immunity is not a reality and it’s important for hobbyists to understand the difference. Immune means in no circumstance can the ailments or parasites take over. Resistance means that subject to several constants and exterraneous variables (such as no equipment failures, velvet covered Achilles tangs added, power failure, or significant stress event) they may remain free of obvious symptoms.

And I don’t care what anyone says Paul, I think it’s your good looks!

 

[Paul B]

Resistance means that subject to several constants and exterraneous variables, such as no equipment failures or velvet covered Achilles tangs added, power failure, or significant stress event, they may remain free of obvious symptoms.

OK, Immunity Resistance Alien invasion. It's a good thing that my tank has not experienced any of those things in the 47 years it has been up, like power outages for 5 days (I think we had three of those) Taking the tank down and moving it to a new home (Two of those) Giant anemone dying stinking up the entire house (One of those) 24 local sea urchins spawning at the same time turning the water into "Half and Half" (one of those) Heater failing lowering the temp into the 60s (two of those) Adding fish with obvious disease, spots etc.including velvet and crushed velvet.

 

[4FordFamily]

OK, Immunity Resistance Alien invasion. It's a good thing that my tank has not experienced any of those things in the 47 years it has been up, like power outages for 5 days (I think we had three of those) Taking the tank down and moving it to a new home (Two of those) Giant anemone dying stinking up the entire house (One of those) 24 local sea urchins spawning at the same time turning the water into "Half and Half" (one of those) Heater failing lowering the temp into the 60s (two of those) Adding fish with obvious disease, spots etc.including velvet and crushed velvet.

But is this repeatable long term for more hobbyists? Not likely.

Also not all stress events can cause such failures. It may work out short or long term. Most aren’t willing to do all of the things you do for your tank and try to feed away serious issues. It just doesn’t work for the majority of hobbyists. I practiced parasite management for ten years or more myself, not as involved or well as you clearly.

I’m still waiting on your OK to send you that Achilles tang to your setup as long as you agree remove it before it stops eating and have what you need for a quarantine tank on hand to treat it. I’m willing to prove a point, and ignore the bad ethics of the thing to put this to bed. That’s an open offer.

All you have to lose is to show we had it right that with some fish it won’t work. For me, it proves your husbandry is phenonenal and on rare occasions it can work if you’re successful! I think the hobby would benefit from knowing.

 

[Humblefish]

What microscope do you recommend? Anything in a reasonable price range?

I've got an older Celestron and IMO it works well, but my understanding is that the newer models are having QC issues. ;Blackeye

I think we need a thread on reasonably microscopes. There are a lot out there and lots of different options. Basic equipment and supplies needed.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/best-affordable-microscope.533861/

 

[Paul B]

But is this repeatable long term for more hobbyists? Not likely.

I don't know, but we do know that having fish get sick and die after or more likely during quarantine is very repeatable. Just look at the disease forum. I can do it and I am not that smart.
I also think I do much less to my tank than anyone here. I rarely change water, don't test, rarely dose and never have to observe fish before I add them as I consider parasites, any parasite a good thing and not a bad one. Parasites are alive and well in my tank probably practicing line dancing right now as they live out their life and try to infect my fish which in turn keeps the fish healthy. Right now my old copperband has some spots on her tail. They are old dead parasites and by seeing those, I know the fish is immune. I realize my ways are totally opposite from what all of us have learned but it is odd that my way "never" has problems and I have been doing this a very long time.

The only thing I do different is keep a natural tank. By that I mean I don't have to vacuum detritus (you can't find any in there anyway because of the RUGF) I would never quarantine and I feed almost every day with something that has live bacteria in it like clams or worms. The vast majority of what I feed is commercial LRS food.

If I were to start up a tank today I think I would add the water and rocks. Try to get some real water or I would use mud from my garden. After the thing settled down I would add some fish. Some would get sick. That is fine and to me, means all is well because they can't get immune unless they are exposed to something to become immune to.

The way many people go is to carefully find a fish, quarantine it for 72 days (in which time most fish would exhibit some sort of disease due to the enormous stress placed on the creature) Then if it does get sick, dip it, then medicate it and hope it survives.
Why don't I have to do that?
It's because fish can and need to live with disease causing bacteria and parasites to stay healthy. It is a huge part of their being and the largest energy user in their body. Just constantly making slime with anti bodies in it uses more energy than growth and reproduction. But you can't short circuit that system and expect a fish to be normal.
Why do we get flu, measles and pneumonia shots? It's because we are not exposed to those things constantly like we used to be so we lose resistance. If we lived in a Jungle in Viet Nam all our life and we were otherwise healthy, we would not get Malaria even though we would be exposed every day.

In the sea fish are exposed to and eat parasites and disease pathogens with every meal. Did you ever see a sick fish in the sea? I have not unless it was wounded and I have spent all most 300 hours underwater.

Until we learn how to naturally live with parasites and other diseases rather than fight them, we will unfortunately always have disease threads and IMO there is no need for them.

 

[Paul B]

I’m still waiting on your OK to send you that Achilles tang to your setup as long as you agree remove it before it stops eating and have what you need for a quarantine tank on hand to treat it. I’m willing to prove a point, and ignore the bad ethics of the thing to put this to bed. That’s an open offer.

Even though I find those things very boring, I am still waiting to find a nice small one at my LFS. I have had many of them and they get to big for my liking.
On another thread people were saying iron is bad for a tank so I suspended a pliers in my tank the week before Thanksgiving and a week after that I traded it for a few iron nails which are very rusty. Nothing happened and nothing will. Iron, in moderation is good, but rather than relying on old rumors, I test my theories on my tank.
I don't know anyone who follow's my methods, but I also don't know anyone with an old tank. As a matter of fact I never heard of anyone with a very old quarantined tank where the fish only die of old age, spawn and never get sick. Do you?

 

[JohnPeck]

Okay okay! Phew!
Back to uronema...for those who do quarantine....how do you go about quarrantining snails and crabs. I thought after a month in a fishless tank all would be good. But its my understanding that uronema does not need a fish host to survive, so couldnt you still be moving the uronema to the dt with the snail/crabs?

 

[Humblefish]

In the sea fish are exposed to and eat parasites and disease pathogens with every meal. Did you ever see a sick fish in the sea? I have not unless it was wounded and I have spent all most 300 hours underwater.

Until we learn how to naturally live with parasites and other diseases rather than fight them, we will unfortunately always have disease threads and IMO there is no need for them.

Coping with parasites in the ocean (where a gazillion gallons of water dilutes them) is much easier for fish to do than living in a (relatively) tiny glass box.

Here's an analogy: 10 of us are standing in an open field, but 1 of us is sick. The other 9 know to stay away from the sick person, and all that air/space between us lessens the chances of a disease being transmitted. Or even if it does happen, odds are the concentration of germs will be light (manageable for a healthy immune system.) But what happens when we're all locked into a small room together (e.g. doctor's waiting room)? And Mr. Sicky is coughing/sneezing and germs are flying everywhere? The smaller the room (i.e. aquarium), the greater the odds are of coming into contact with a larger concentration of germs (i.e. parasites) which could collectively overpower the immune system.