Uronema becoming big problem these days? (Aside from chromis)

[4FordFamily]

On a happy note ... my anthias made it through the night and are still doing great! They just devoured some metro medicated food, and they have brown poo. A couple questions about metro since I’ve never used it before. Is it possible to overdose it? Will it affect the results of my api ammonia test kit? And can I use prime with it if I need to?

It’s possible to overdose but it’s difficult if you follow instructions. You’d have to make a pretty serious calculation error.

It shouldn’t impact your ammonia test kit

I believe you can use prime but I’d rather suggest you dose beneficial bacteria instead to curb the ammonia issue. BioSpira is my go-to.

Glad the anthias are doing well!

 

[brwaldbaum]

I think a lot of QT wipeouts stem from overdosing copper. The information found in the links below was written specifically to address that problem:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/coppe...truments-high-range-copper-checker-hi702.454/

Some fish cannot tolerate copper, others cannot tolerate formalin. Many times it comes down to an individual thing rather than a genus/species thing. I.E. We both go to the doctor with the same illness, are prescribed the same medication; My body handles the medication just fine, but yours has a negative reaction to it.

A 45 min formalin bath + freshwater/peroxide dip will probably eliminate most "surface" parasites + worms on a fish. Does it get them all? What happens when 1 trophont survives, drops off and begins the process of reproducing in your small glass box?? The point of followup copper (or Chloroquine) treatment is to ensure the fish is shielded from reinfection and thus 100% parasite free upon entering the DT. It also should be noted that formalin/formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, so even if you aren't concerned about your fish getting cancer the human performing the bath should wear rubber gloves, face mask, etc.

I'd reply to your comments, but 4FordFamily told me to shut up about copper.

 

[Humblefish]

I'd reply to your comments, but 4FordFamily told me to shut up about copper.

Look, let's all just try to calm down and have a rational discussion here. We already know we aren't going to agree on everything, so let's just explain our respective POVs without criticizing anyone else or their ideas on the subject. I'll start by apologizing to anyone in this thread I may have offended.

 

[brwaldbaum]

I apologize for not using c----r.

lol

 

[Ppoeschl]

I run in to this complete misunderstanding all the time. If you want to compare toxicity you have use therapeutically similar doses! If compound A has to be dosed at 100 ppm to be effective and it is toxic at 500ppm, it is no less safe than compound B that has to be dosed at 1000 ppm and is toxic at 1500 ppm. By your statement compound A would be 3 times as toxic when in fact it is over 3 times less toxic.

You can't compare on a mg per mg basis. That's like my patients saying 50 mg of HCTZ is more potent than 10 mg of amlodipine....which patently not true.

Exactly. A copper difference of just 0.1 ppm can kill. Where as a formalin based med has a tolerance of several tens of ppm depending on duration.

 

[brwaldbaum]

I run in to this complete misunderstanding all the time. If you want to compare toxicity you have use therapeutically similar doses! If compound A has to be dosed at 100 ppm to be effective and it is toxic at 500ppm, it is no less safe than compound B that has to be dosed at 1000 ppm and is toxic at 1500 ppm. By your statement compound A would be 3 times as toxic when in fact it is over 3 times less toxic.

You can't compare on a mg per mg basis. That's like my patients saying 50 mg of HCTZ is more potent than 10 mg of amlodipine....which patently not true.

The molar mass of cupric ion is greater than the molar mass of formaldehyde.

 

[HotRocks]

Look, let's all just try to calm down and have a rational discussion here. We already know we aren't going to agree on everything, so let's just explain our respective POVs without criticizing anyone else or their ideas on the subject. I'll start by apologizing to anyone in this thread I may have offended.

Agree. I wasn't trying to be offensive by any means.

 

[saltyhog]

I think you're still missing the point. Try leaving your fish in that therapeutic level of formalin for 30 days. Is there any definitive proof that formalin can cure Ich? Velvet? It's a bridge to definitive treatment.

 

[brwaldbaum]

I think you're still missing the point. Try leaving your fish in that therapeutic level of formalin for 30 days. Is there any definitive proof that formalin can cure Ich? Velvet? It's a bridge to definitive treatment.

Does 25 ppm for two weeks count?

(I edited this post because I accidentally overstated the concentration of formalin that I had used in an extended bath. I originally wrote 75ppm.)

 

[JaimeAdams]

Interesting read.

 

[4FordFamily]

No offense intended here either, just would like to keep the thread on topic and relevant. I’d be happy to contribute to a copper specific thread.

 

[Ppoeschl]

I think you're still missing the point. Try leaving your fish in that therapeutic level of formalin for 30 days. Is there any definitive proof that formalin can cure Ich? Velvet? It's a bridge to definitive treatment.

Absolutely. Formalin if kept at therapeutic can definitely kill Crypt and Amyloodinium.

 

[Ppoeschl]

That is, if you could keep at therapeutic... Which is actually impossible.

 

[Ppoeschl]

That being said... I'm a staunch supporter of using both drugs when appropriate.

 

[brwaldbaum]

The evidence is that tomonts are impervious to formalin. Trophonts, similarly, are not killed by formalin but are driven off the fish with sufficient exposure time.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

See the red splotch by his eye? Is that uronema? Or just his coloring? All 3 have it in about the same spot. Sorry for the blurry picture. It’s in a plastic tub

 

[4FordFamily]

See the red splotch by his eye? Is that uronema? Or just his coloring? All 3 have it in about the same spot. Sorry for the blurry picture. It’s in a plastic tub

It’s probably normal but anthias is one enormous gaping hole in my fish experience/knowledge. I don’t keep them and really never have for any amount of time :/

 

[Ppoeschl]

The evidence is that tomonts are impervious to formalin. Trophonts, similarly, are not killed by formalin but are driven off the fish with sufficient exposure time.

As with pretty much all drugs. The kill zone is when they are theronts.

 

[JaimeAdams]

See the red splotch by his eye? Is that uronema? Or just his coloring? All 3 have it in about the same spot. Sorry for the blurry picture. It’s in a plastic tub

Your Anthias looks normal. I've seen the rose cheeks on lots of them that I sell at the store.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

Your Anthias looks normal. I've seen the rose cheeks on lots of them that I sell at the store.

Thanks!