Using Reef Welder to kill nuisance coral / paly's

[Killer Karma]

So I'm trying to kill what a lfs indicated was known as Texas Trash Paly's. All I know for sure is they have toxin in them and I hate them. My thought is to use this reef welder to smother them and then be able to remove the reef welder and have my good looking rock back. Some would say just remove the rock however I have a 350 gallon tank, they are everywhere, and the rocks are attached to several large corals and it is really not a great option. So these are the steps I have taken and the document pictures. Couple of notes,

The rubber gets everywhere like paint use gloves.
The water needs to be hotter than the indicated 120 as the reef welder absorbs a lot of heat.
The reef welder is not that hot after you remove it, however it can have little pockets of water in it that are hot.
The reef welder is pliable for several minutes out of the water, however cools quickly 60 seconds or so once in the water.

This is my process.

1. Coat some fishing weights in rubber and soak them.
2. Prepare the reef welder and attach the weights.
3. Smother the corals.

 

[Killer Karma]

Two thinks I forgot to mention.

This is a test, if it works I will cover all of the remaining palys.
It says on the reef weld it will not cause a skimmer overflow, this is possible if using a small amount, the amount I used did cause my skimmer to go nuts.

 

[Centerline]

Two thinks I forgot to mention.

This is a test, if it works I will cover all of the remaining palys.
It says on the reef weld it will not cause a skimmer overflow, this is possible if using a small amount, the amount I used did cause my skimmer to go nuts.

I'm pretty sure this is going to work. If it doesn't a turkey baster and boiling salt water certainly will!

 

[Killer Karma]

I'm pretty sure this is going to work. If it doesn't a turkey baster and boiling salt water certainly will!

Hmmm, I never thought of that. Question though. I know it shouldnt but Will that cause the paly toxin to aerosol? How close can other corals be and not die?

 

[Killer Karma]

Soooo...the reef welder is definitely killing the paly's however some of my corals nearby were in the process of dying when I got home. I immediately placed a bag of carbon on top of the reef welder patches and it seems like things are starting to recover. I'm not sure if it was the palys releasing toxin or the reef welder itself causing the damage. I'm thinking of instead of reef welder for the rest using carbon in bags weighed down with the fishing weights. Thoughts?

 

[dmw913]

Given the size of the job, I would be really worried about palytoxin in the tank both for tank safety and yours. I also respect that the tank is large and you can't move the rocks out entirely.

Did you give any thought to a nice, sharp chisel or coral cutter to chip away the rock underneath the paly, toss it in the trash and there's immediate removal with the least amount of toxin. I would also just physically remove any smaller rock that can be removed and be done with it, i.e. Toss the rock entirely, no trying to save it or recure it.

All of the decay, toxin, etc. in removal within the tank has me concerned for your overall tank stability.

Just a random musing.

 

[Centerline]

Hmmm, I never thought of that. Question though. I know it shouldnt but Will that cause the paly toxin to aerosol? How close can other corals be and not die?

I have no idea but it has worked for me in the past.

 

[burtbollinger]

right off the bat, you need to know you are playing with fire.

Frankly, bite the bullet just remove the rocks. Its not a great option but its your only option, IMO. It's a major undertaking, but you have a major problem....unless you can grow to enjoy the look of palys.

I'd personally be making a plan to chip off the corals you want to save and ditch the rock.

With your current approach I have a major concern you're gonna cause a tank-wide kill off of everything if youre not careful...and while alarmist talk of palytoxin poisoning is somewhat annoying, you do need to be careful.

The most important point I want drive home with you is that with what you are doing and the stress and effort and risk you are facing...its all for nothing. Those palys, they WILL come back. What youre attempting is temporary. They come back from nothing.

I lost an entire tank due to similar palys...they are tank killers...if drastic measures are not taken, they get everywhere and cause eventual shut down. And mass-kill off techniques are risky, and again, TEMPORARY. These things come back from nothing...and will never, ever stop.

I ended up "killing off" too many at once with a Mojano wand and caused a large die off....ended up shutting the tank down because they were everywhere. Worst pest in reefing, IMO....and no, the boiling water thing won't work either.

I really think if you carry on as you are now without bold, decisive action....you either nuke your tank with released toxins...or you watch these palys overgrow the entire tank.

 

[Killer Karma]

right off the bat, you need to know you are playing with fire.

Frankly, bite the bullet just remove the rocks. Its not a great option but its your only option, IMO. It's a major undertaking, but you have a major problem....unless you can grow to enjoy the look of palys.

I'd personally be making a plan to chip off the corals you want to save and ditch the rock.

With your current approach I have a major concern you're gonna cause a tank-wide kill off of everything if youre not careful...and while alarmist talk of palytoxin poisoning is somewhat annoying, you do need to be careful.

The most important point I want drive home with you is that with what you are doing and the stress and effort and risk you are facing...its all for nothing. Those palys, they WILL come back. What youre attempting is temporary. They come back from nothing.

I lost an entire tank due to similar palys...they are tank killers...if drastic measures are not taken, they get everywhere and cause eventual shut down. And mass-kill off techniques are risky, and again, TEMPORARY. These things come back from nothing...and will never, ever stop.

I ended up "killing off" too many at once with a Mojano wand and caused a large die off....ended up shutting the tank down because they were everywhere. Worst pest in reefing, IMO....and no, the boiling water thing won't work either.

I really think if you carry on as you are now without bold, decisive action....you either nuke your tank with released toxins...or you watch these palys overgrow the entire tank.

I appreciate the response and had already decided to go this route and just pull out all the rock, save what corals I can and deal with the loss. Couldn't I just leave the rocks out in the sun for a day and then cycle them in a trash can for awhile?

 

[mfinn]

The best way I have found to remove large areas of trash polyps off of rock is to use bleach.
Soaking them for 24-48 hours in a strong bleach solution with remove pretty much everything organic.
It does kill the bacteria in the rock, but it will leave you with nice clean rock.

 

[Killer Karma]

The best way I have found to remove large areas of trash polyps off of rock is to use bleach.
Soaking them for 24-48 hours in a strong bleach solution with remove pretty much everything organic.
It does kill the bacteria in the rock, but it will leave you with nice clean rock.

How strong?

 

[mfinn]

2-3 cups per 5 gallons is what I use for stuff that will fit in a 5 gallon bucket.
I recently cleaned up some old dry rock that had alot of dried algae on it with a few polyps on it with 1 gallon of bleach in a 20 gallon garbage container, that was 1/2 full of rock.

 

[mfinn]

After all the organic matter is gone, you need to rinse it off, then soak it in a strong dechlorinator solution, then air dry for a couple days.

 

[Justin Swinney]

I used vinegar in a syringe and needle and stabbed the polyps and inbjected vinegar into it. No survivors and they were completely receded in less than 12 hours. I just added a new bag of carbon and did a 25% way change the next day

 

[burtbollinger]

I appreciate the response and had already decided to go this route and just pull out all the rock, save what corals I can and deal with the loss. Couldn't I just leave the rocks out in the sun for a day and then cycle them in a trash can for awhile?

first things first...please keep reading and researching before doing anything drastic...as my opinion is only my own. I'm just one random guy on the internet.

Anyway....I would never trust they would be completely gone with this method...so much work for no guarantee. I've heard crazy stories about palys coming back. (I mentally collect trash paly stories) Forgive the lack of scientific terminology...but something about "seeds" of the palys from within the rock causing them to come back, etc..

As for the vinegar injection method...I tried that and they came back. I did kalk injection and they came back. I tried lemon juice, Aptasia-X....and finally electricity...They also came back after being zapped with a Mojano Wand.

(Here's my tank that I had to end up shutting down lest you think I'm telling tall tales....http://bit.ly/2mW1u2H)

I think follow your gut on this...and if you think pulling the rock is in fact doable, go for it.

As for reusing that rock, I dont know much about the strong bleach solution listed above but I'd bet its effective.

Personally....I'd take the hit and buy some new rock...and save the old, now bleached paly rock for another build down the line.

Sorry you're dealing with this, man...I feel your pain. If its any consolation, in the end, youre tank will look better than ever.

 

[dmw913]

If you're talking rock reuse, you should also investigate the muriatic acid method of curing rock. Theoretically, because the acid eats away the layers of calcium, it has an even better chance of eliminating any paly remnants than bleach. If nothing else, the brave souls who cure rock this way make some really fun YouTube videos.

 

[MaddyP]

You might be better off using straight Instamorph. Same thing as Reef Welder, without the added color or skimmer irritants. I've used large quantities in my tank with no issues.

 

[mfinn]

If you're talking rock reuse, you should also investigate the muriatic acid method of curing rock. Theoretically, because the acid eats away the layers of calcium, it has an even better chance of eliminating any paly remnants than bleach. If nothing else, the brave souls who cure rock this way make some really fun YouTube videos.

actually the muriatic acid will dissolve rock before organic matter.

 

[Killer Karma]

Im going to leave it in the sun for a day, s florida sun is pretty harsh in the summer, bleach it 24 hours, then dark cure it in a trash can for a couple weeks, then light cure it a couple weeks more see how it looks. My 2 year old son just got diagnosed w diabeties 1 last thur so i cant afford to replace 100 lbs of live rock

 

[Killer Karma]

Thank you all for your help