Velvet: Lengthy desperate cry for help

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

I introduced velvet with a fairy wrasse that looked great at first but declined very quickly after two weeks.
I then tried the do nothing improve water BS for a week Lesson learned. ( Fighting war on GHA, tank three years old)

Sequence so far

Monday:
Fish became lethargic,noticed the change in behavior.

Tuesday:
bought and setup a 20 gallon qt (not cycled, bare)(I know that's small but I didn't have the money or water making capacity for larger)
Dosed the first 40 drops of cupramine. 10

Snagged all fish. Y. Tang, 2 percula clown, fairy wrasse, 3bangaii cards
Dipped 10 sec methyl blue then added to qt( all fish)

Wrasse and all Cardinals perished around midnight, when I woke up to check.

Wednesday:
added amonnia badge, fed frozen mysis. The remaining fish ate but hardly compared to usual. Lethargic clowns and fast breathing on all.

Thursday (today so far):

Worsening visual velvet film all over the clowns. Larger clown on its side.
Didn't trust the badge so I 50 percent wc with appropriate cupramine dose to match existing dose.
Waited an hour then added half the dose instruction to raise copper (added 10 drops, 10 more required)
Larger clown dies 30 minutes later. Smaller one looks similar to the other hours prior.

Tang is hanging in there but not usual self.

I plan to add remaining cupramine Tonite to bring to therepudic.

I'm hoping for any insight from someone who may know from experience as this is my first rodeo. I've read countless articles but I feel time is crucial right now.

If this was your situation, what would you do?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Spare time · Mar 3, 2022

@Jay Hemdal

Spare time · Mar 3, 2022

Could you share pics?

I wonder if it could be brook?

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Spare time said:
Could you share pics?

I wonder if it could be brook?

Please excuse Daniel tiger in the background noise

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Dhalterman1984 said:
Please excuse Daniel tiger in the background noise

Spare time · Mar 3, 2022

Go ahead and raise cupramine to the proper level. Don't wait. There is no need to add it slowly.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 3, 2022

Dhalterman1984 said:

Microscopic IDs are tough - I'm pretty good when I'm using a scope I'm familiar with, but not so much on other people's equipment. This does not really look like Amyloodinium/Velvet to me - more like Brooklynella. If so, then copper won't really help, you need something with formalin in it.

Can you also post a video of the fish?

Jay

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Full dose of Cupramine Done
Video was of a gill scrape off dead clown today that was in the qt. video slowed 50 percent

Jay Hemdal · Mar 3, 2022

Spare time said:
Go ahead and raise cupramine to the proper level. Don't wait. There is no need to add it slowly.

Agreed - if this is velevet, many fish die while folks take two or more days getting the dose up. For velvet, you need an accurate full dose within 12 to 24 hours. I dose coppersafe as one single add.

That said, I'm thinking this may be Brook, so copper won't help.....

Jay

Spare time · Mar 3, 2022

If it is brook, I have had great luck with paraguard when treating someone else's fish that had brook

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Microscopic IDs are tough - I'm pretty good when I'm using a scope I'm familiar with, but not so much on other people's equipment. This does not really look like Amyloodinium/Velvet to me - more like Brooklynella. If so, then copper won't really help, you need something with formalin in it.

Can you also post a video of the fish?

Jay

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Well the fish had the small white dots all over them, also I saw stuff under the scope days ago ( no photos) that identically matched velvet from a Humble thread. Scraped from the Dt glass not the fish. So I freaked and went copper.

Maybe both brook and velvet?

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

I'm kinda with the brook boat at this point, should I end copper??? Bring it back slow?

The last clown isn't going good after full cupramine dose

Jay Hemdal · Mar 3, 2022

Dhalterman1984 said:
I'm kinda with the brook boat at this point, should I end copper??? Bring it back slow?

The last clown isn't going good after full cupramine dose

Grossly, it does look like brooklynella. Formalin is best for that, but this clown may be too far gone to survive a treatment…..
Jay

piranhaman00 · Mar 3, 2022

There’s no reason to ramp copper ever, fish go into full dose immediately, I would switch to copper power, cupramine has tight window

vetteguy53081 · Mar 3, 2022

Agree with Jay. Clear case of brook and paraguard is not the answer and in fact find it rarely works as it is for bacteria generalized and ectoparasitea. Not the case with these clowns
Typical treatment is a standard formalin solution is mixed with either fresh or saltwater in a separate treatment container. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this disease.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

Dhalterman1984 · Mar 3, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Grossly, it does look like brooklynella. Formalin is best for that, but this clown may be too far gone to survive a treatment…..
Jay

Again, Thanks for your help, very much.

I swapped out 100 percent water. Couldn't wait any longer, that fish would have ended up like the others.

That cupramine must be too toxic in big jumps. I haven't tried any other types but I probably won't use that anymore.

The tang and clown look way way better. For now. Formalin is days out at best.

Would freshwater dips kill back the brook?
Or would they all pop and kill the fish?

Secondary. I will scrape the display and check again to see if velvet is present. I was almost certain before. Plus all the fish were powdered sugar covered. But not right now.

I learned a lot today.