Vendor transparency question

[drstardust]

So, I recently asked a vendor (won't name names) where they sourced their fish from (which wholesaler, etc), and they declined to tell me. This is the first time I had asked a vendor this, and was wondering if it was typical for them to be secretive about this, or if this is a red flag.

To me, I don't think such transparency is too much to ask, but perhaps this is typical behavior that I'm just not used to? What have been your experiences?

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Seems like an odd thing to be secretive about, unless the wholesaler had prices listed (virtually none do) and they were were worried about customers going to their sites and seeing prices.

Maybe they’re getting them from an online vendor that has prices listed?

 

[drstardust]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting idea, maybe?

 

[Lingwendil]

I always slant an eyebrow about things like this. They likely get it from somewhere questionable, or somewhere that you could also order from if they react like this. All the successful shops I deal with have absolutely no problem stating sources, and often bring it up without asking- most places know the market is highly competitive and will be glad to let you know where things come from. Especially when it comes to aquacultured or locally bred stuff.

 

[drstardust]

I always slant an eyebrow about things like this. They likely get it from somewhere questionable, or somewhere that you could also order from if they react like this. All the successful shops I deal with have absolutely no problem stating sources, and often bring it up without asking- most places know the market is highly competitive and will be glad to let you know where things come from. Especially when it comes to aquacultured or locally bred stuff.

Thank you, that's very helpful to know.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting idea, maybe?

I know that online vendors who sell just a hair or two above wholesale have changed perspectives.

We order primarily from QM, ORA, and SDC, and have who knows how many little straggler accounts that we barely ever use. One would have to provide a resale license, have a brick & mortar, etc to get a dealer login and see prices. Our margins are pretty standard for the industry (I’m doing this to make a living, not as a favor).

As a sort of aside...I’ve had a couple clients ask ‘Why should I pay what you charge when I can get it cheaper online?’. My standard reply is ‘You absolutely can buy online. Not stopping you. But when you have a problem with your tank at 2am, make sure you call online and not me’. That typically ends the conversation.

 

[drstardust]

I know that online vendors who sell just a hair or two above wholesale have changed perspectives.

We order primarily from QM, ORA, and SDC, and have who knows how many little straggler accounts that we barely ever use. One wouldnhave to provide a resale license, have a brick & mortar, etc tonget a dealer login and see prices. Our margins are pretty standard for the industry (I’m doing this to make a living, not as a favor).

As a sort of aside...I’ve had a couple clients ask ‘Why should I pay what you charge when I can get it cheaper online?’. My standard reply is ‘You absolutely can buy online. Not stopping you. But when you have a problem with your tank at 2am, make sure you call online and not me’. That typically ends the conversation.

I really don't know why a vendor would order from, for instance, LiveAquaria where (presumably non-wholesale) prices are listed for the public to see-- instead of just sourcing fish directly from QM. Doesn't make sense to me.

And indeed, I hear you. I'm very sympathetic to the plight of LFS in this age of online ordering. Of course, the caveats to that are quality and reasonable convenience. If the closest LFS to someone is 2 hours away, I don't blame them for ordering online. If their only available LFS is absolutely careless and terrible, I wouldn't blame them either.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I really don't know why a vendor would order from, for instance, LiveAquaria where (presumably non-wholesale) prices are listed for the public to see-- instead of just sourcing fish directly from QM. Doesn't make sense to me.

And indeed, I hear you. I'm very sympathetic to the plight of LFS in this age of online ordering. Of course, the caveats to that are quality and reasonable convenience. If the closest LFS to someone is 2 hours away, I don't blame them for ordering online. If their only available LFS is absolutely careless and terrible, I wouldn't blame them either.

Lot of possible reasons.

If they are really bad about paying, for instance, a wholesaler can shut their account down. I’ve seen this happen to a few companies. Maybe their licensure isn’t sufficient? Maybe they’re just a PIA to deal with. Vendor/wholesaler relationships break down all the time.

When I first moved to Chicago, I worked for an LFS that was one of the bigger, more ‘successful’ outfits. But they treated their suppliers like crap, were constantly 90+ days out on payments, etc. Well, among many other problems they were having, they started getting iced out by suppliers.

Hard to stay in business when you can’t order from anybody. Needless to say, they’re no longer with us.

 

[drstardust]

Lot of possible reasons.

If they are really bad about paying, for instance, a wholesaler can shut their account down. I’ve seen this happen to a few companies. Maybe their licensure isn’t sufficient? Maybe they’re just a PIA to deal with. Vendor/wholesaler relationships break down all the time.

When I first moved to Chicago, I worked for an LFS that was one of the bigger, more ‘successful’ outfits. But they treated their suppliers like crap, were constantly 90+ days out on payments, etc. Well, among many other problems they were having, they started getting iced out by suppliers.

Hard to stay in business when you can’t order from anybody. Needless to say, they’re no longer with us.

Thanks for that perspective. Not being in the business myself, I had no idea about such possibilities.

 

[Opus]

Well, it is not fish, but a few years back the owner of the lfs I went to every week was telling me of an incident he had over his coral supplier. He was transhipping his corals in and was getting in some really nice corals. One of the other shops wanted to find out his supplier so called up the airline and pretended to be him and found out who was shipping the corals. He had no problem telling you where he got his fish.

 

[drstardust]

Well, it is not fish, but a few years back the owner of the lfs I went to every week was telling me of an incident he had over his coral supplier. He was transhipping his corals in and was getting in some really nice corals. One of the other shops wanted to find out his supplier so called up the airline and pretended to be him and found out who was shipping the corals. He had no problem telling you where he got his fish.

Wow that's pretty messed up!

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Well, it is not fish, but a few years back the owner of the lfs I went to every week was telling me of an incident he had over his coral supplier. He was transhipping his corals in and was getting in some really nice corals. One of the other shops wanted to find out his supplier so called up the airline and pretended to be him and found out who was shipping the corals. He had no problem telling you where he got his fish.

That story doesn’t make sense. No airline is going to tell anybody anything without an airbill number.

 

[Opus]

That story doesn’t make sense. No airline is going to tell anybody anything without an airbill number.

Not sure how he did it, but he was able to get the info.

 

[High ICP]

nm

 

[vetteguy53081]

I see no problem in vendor keeping this confidential as not you, but you'd be surprised how many out there will take the step to contact their supplier(s) to see if they can purchase direct to save some money.
When I owned my pet store, I had a few customers who actually took the liberty and copy the wholesaler and their phone number off the shipping box and see if they could get a price list (A LOT OF NERVE) to see if they could direct purchase and probably to see what I was paying.
I BELIEVE THIS IS PERSONAL INFORMATION.

This past weekend, there was a live sale, and someone actually was brazen enough to ask the vendor how much they make off these live sales.

Anyone with thoughts? - Was this proper or not to ask such question? me - I was shocked.

 

[drstardust]

I see no problem in vendor keeping this confidential as not you, but you'd be surprised how many out there will take the step to contact their supplier(s) to see if they can purchase direct to save some money.
When I owned my pet store, I had a few customers who actually took the liberty and copy the wholesaler and their phone number off the shipping box and see if they could get a price list (A LOT OF NERVE) to see if they could direct purchase and probably to see what I was paying.
I BELIEVE THIS IS PERSONAL INFORMATION.

This past weekend, there was a live sale, and someone actually was brazen enough to ask the vendor how much they make off these live sales.

Anyone with thoughts? - Was this proper or not to ask such question? me - I was shocked.

Well that seems rather below the belt. However, how many wholesalers do you know who would sell directly to an individual? That seems like something that wouldn't happen and against their business model. It's pretty low for someone to try to pull such a stunt, but I imagine most wholesalers would quickly give them the finger. I could be wrong, and you may know of this happening.

As far as asking any company or entity about their profits, that is very inappropriate, IMO. I don't ask my family how much they rake in, let alone a stranger.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Well that seems rather below the belt. However, how many wholesalers do you know who would sell directly to an individual? That seems like something that wouldn't happen and against their business model. It's pretty low for someone to try to pull such a stunt, but I imagine most wholesalers would quickly give them the finger. I could be wrong, and you may know of this happening.

As far as asking any company or entity about their profits, that is very inappropriate, IMO. I don't ask my family how much they rake in, let alone a stranger.

Some things have changed over the years in re: to getting a wholesale account. In some ways, it has gotten easier, due to there essentially just being more suppliers and the line between supplier and e-comm vendor being blurred.

There are some e-comm vendors and small wholesalers that probably don’t require more than just a resale license.

In other ways, it has gotten harder. The really good, and reputable, suppliers just about require a DNA profile and passing a polygraph to get an account these days. For example, ORA requires all licensure, trade references, invoices from other suppliers, and pictures of your store to give an account.

As far as people asking how much I make on livestock, I just say ‘pretty much the same as everybody else’.

 

[drstardust]

Interesting to know.
And just to clarify so no one gets me wrong...as the owner/operator of a private business, it is totally within your rights to share as much or as little with clients as you wish. I will always respect that. However, not sharing certain information can make one suspicious. For instance, if an LFS owner wouldn't even tell me his first name, that would be well within his rights to do. However, I would definitely raise an eyebrow at that. Likewise, I would never expect him to share his profit margins with me, and wouldn't dare ask. So, that's what I was getting at finding out via this thread--is not sharing supplier information akin to the former or the latter, is it normal level of privacy or suspicious level of secrecy. It looks like there are answers on both ends of the aisle at the moment.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Not sure how he did it, but he was able to get the info.

Inside job

 

[KorD]

I would be happy to ask my place I go to where they get their stuff.. I would like to know if I'm going to get something ripped from the ocean by way of third party trying to make a buck, if it has been tank raised or if it comes from somewhere trustworthy. I have been known to ask that question plenty of times.
I have only done business with two shops here in TX since we moved here and with just starting up my tank again. I also tell them I am not going to be pursuing that place, but just want something reputable.