Vermetid snails - are they really that bad?

[Harold999]

I noticed an explosion of their numbers after starting with vodka/vinegar dosing, they definetely like that.

 

[fish farmer]

here's a different take - don't blame the vermatid snails - they are the symptom of an underlying problem of the tank - they explode because conditions allow them to. I'd expect, since they are filter feeders, that you have too much dissolved organics / nutrients in the water columns. If the snails didn't explode and filter them out, then something else (which might be wayy worse, like hydroids) will just take their place.

focus on your water parameters, filtration, and nutrient export, and the vermatid population should self-regulate.

Here's another take.... valuable filter feeder.

In my system, my testable nutrients are low, got a refuge and skimmer. I feed more now because...well everyone says you want nutes in there. I also seem to have a valonia increase as well, which were present before. At least it's not gha.

 

[nickmealey]

This isn't always possible, but feeding pellets vs frozen and laying off the coral food seems like it would have a meaningful impact. I've almost certainly noticed their feeders come out when you stir up the sand or feed frozen a lot, but not so much with dry pellets.

 

[jerrberryjerr]

These things are a menace! My tang must have poked his eye on one and then developed popeye. It has since recovered, sure wish I could get rid of these things.

 

[Reefahholic]

The man who comes up with a Vermetid snail eradication method will be rich.

We were gonna dip them in KCI, but I heard they can survive that. Can anybody confirm or has anybody tired it? The problem with these little devils is that when anything irritates them or threatens them they retract into the base of their shell. The probably seal off the exit hole with their special sauces too.

 

[Harold999]

Can't you eliminate them in fowlr tanks with medicines that kill snails (dewormers)?
Must watch for ammonia though if you have a lot of them and mass slaughter them.

 

[lba4590]

here's a different take - don't blame the vermatid snails - they are the symptom of an underlying problem of the tank - they explode because conditions allow them to. I'd expect, since they are filter feeders, that you have too much dissolved organics / nutrients in the water columns. If the snails didn't explode and filter them out, then something else (which might be wayy worse, like hydroids) will just take their place.

focus on your water parameters, filtration, and nutrient export, and the vermatid population should self-regulate.

I keep a pretty low nutrient tank (I think?) but this is probably a dumb question.. are dissolved nutrients/organics directly reflected in NO3/PO4? My nitrates are generally under 10 (just checked and it’s 7.1) and PO4 is almost always 0.04-0.06. It’s also a 3 yr old system and quite stable. Weirdly enough coralline has really never taken off. I keep alk around 9-9.5 dkh and calcium 420 or so. I wish I could get the coralline to outcompete some of the other things in the tank. I’m really scared now my plumbing is filled with them.

 

[lba4590]

I read somewhere that Marine biologists count them on reefs as an indicator of Reed health.

I think breaking down a tank due to Vermetid snails is a bit extreme, just needs time and patients to resolve. I had a bad outbreak a couple of years ago, still find some today, you’ll never be free of them but you can get them under control…

What did I do? Bumblebee snails and … KZ Coral snow! Give the tank a good stir to get them feeding then dose the Coral Snow, this should over time start to block the feeding tube.

huh I’ve never heard of coral snow. Just looked it up and I’m definitely going to give it a try!

 

[Dkmoo]

I keep a pretty low nutrient tank (I think?) but this is probably a dumb question.. are dissolved nutrients/organics directly reflected in NO3/PO4? My nitrates are generally under 10 (just checked and it’s 7.1) and PO4 is almost always 0.04-0.06. It’s also a 3 yr old system and quite stable. Weirdly enough coralline has really never taken off. I keep alk around 9-9.5 dkh and calcium 420 or so. I wish I could get the coralline to outcompete some of the other things in the tank. I’m really scared now my plumbing is filled with them.

There are no dumb questions.

Unfortunately dissolved organics ("DOC") are not measured by no3/po4. They are called organics bc they are carbon compounds. Thats why another poster stated they he got an explosion from vodka dosing (carbon) and another said the ZV coral snow worked (bc thats basically a binder compound that absorbs dissolved organics into a bigger chunk that can be skimmed out.

Usually high DOC comes from 1) inadequate skimming. 2) algae (both micro and macro) - they make sugar from photosynthesis. 3) bacteria. 4) dosing/overfeeding - carbon like vodka, or amino acids, some bacteria in a bottle also contain high carbon as the source of food to keep bacteria alive.

DOC by itself isn't good or bad - it feeds good things (corals, microfauna, filter feeders, beneficial bacteria) as well as bad things (bad filterfeeders, pests, bad bacteria). Its basically the foundation that a diverse microfauna feeds on.

If your tankmates are otherwise healthy then i think the DOC has had a positive impact with contributing to stability. Vermatids has exploded likely bc you dont have other filterfeeders to add to competitin. Do you see healthy colonies of sponges, feather dusters, barnacles, or other filterfeeders?

Getting a cleaner clam should also help.

 

[Dkmoo]

EDIT: not sure what happened this posted 3x, deleted this duplicate

 

[Dkmoo]

EDIT: deleted triple post...

 

[Robinreefs94]

I agree with earlier. Keep the feeding down a bit and crush the majority by hand and you should'nt see problems. I've coexisted for years and I have'nt seen any direct impact on the corals. That does'nt say that they can be a problem, but if you got enough competition you should see that they´re a pretty brittle lifeform.

 

[lba4590]

There are no dumb questions.

Unfortunately dissolved organics ("DOC") are not measured by no3/po4. They are called organics bc they are carbon compounds. Thats why another poster stated they he got an explosion from vodka dosing (carbon) and another said the ZV coral snow worked (bc thats basically a binder compound that absorbs dissolved organics into a bigger chunk that can be skimmed out.

Usually high DOC comes from 1) inadequate skimming. 2) algae (both micro and macro) - they make sugar from photosynthesis. 3) bacteria. 4) dosing/overfeeding - carbon like vodka, or amino acids, some bacteria in a bottle also contain high carbon as the source of food to keep bacteria alive.

DOC by itself isn't good or bad - it feeds good things (corals, microfauna, filter feeders, beneficial bacteria) as well as bad things (bad filterfeeders, pests, bad bacteria). Its basically the foundation that a diverse microfauna feeds on.

If your tankmates are otherwise healthy then i think the DOC has had a positive impact with contributing to stability. Vermatids has exploded likely bc you dont have other filterfeeders to add to competitin. Do you see healthy colonies of sponges, feather dusters, barnacles, or other filterfeeders?

Getting a cleaner clam should also help.

Super helpful, thanks! I do think my skimmer is underpowered and I grow chaeto like crazy (I remove a couple of big handfuls every 2 weeks or so). Would a beefier skimmer help without bringing my NO3/PO4 down to dangerously low levels?

I have a lot of sponges but their growth has slowed down.. but I’m not complaining because they were growing over zoa colonies. Some barnacles too and I was surprised to see that 2 hitchhikers turned into 8-10 that I can see. Other than that not much else. Lots of pods in the sump but they get destroyed in the DT.. I don’t see many at all in there. No feather dusters because of my copperband.

However I was dosing NOPOX until maybe.. 2 months ago and now I’m thinking that had something to do with the explosion. I’m definitely not breaking down and restarting and it’s definitely super helpful to know they can be “managed” through good tank maintenance and other microfauna (which I’m definitely lacking in).

 

[Dkmoo]

Super helpful, thanks! I do think my skimmer is underpowered and I grow chaeto like crazy (I remove a couple of big handfuls every 2 weeks or so). Would a beefier skimmer help without bringing my NO3/PO4 down to dangerously low levels?

I have a lot of sponges but their growth has slowed down.. but I’m not complaining because they were growing over zoa colonies. Some barnacles too and I was surprised to see that 2 hitchhikers turned into 8-10 that I can see. Other than that not much else. Lots of pods in the sump but they get destroyed in the DT.. I don’t see many at all in there. No feather dusters because of my copperband.

However I was dosing NOPOX until maybe.. 2 months ago and now I’m thinking that had something to do with the explosion. I’m definitely not breaking down and restarting and it’s definitely super helpful to know they can be “managed” through good tank maintenance and other microfauna (which I’m definitely lacking in).

Nopox is basically vinegar + vodka dosing slapped in a fancy RS label and price hiked 5x lol.

Def could have contributed to the initial explosion.

 

[McPuff]

Bumbles will only eat the small form of vermetid and they are very good at it but you'll want to get a decent number of them right off the bat. The large form(s) of vermetids are much more difficult to deal with as it basically requires manual intervention. Either cut them off at the base and remove (best) or crush them (they can release larvae) and let the fish eat them (they love it). I do a combination and it just depends on where the thing is located. My triggers will happily eat them if I crush them or even just hold the siphon toward them (they suck the snail right out!). Unfortunately, they don't seem to go hunting for the vermetids on their own.

I'm going to start using "coral snow" for another purpose but I'll monitor to see if it affects the vermetids as well.

 

[dlc]

I had tons in my biocube but have been having problems with low calcium. I just checked and they are virtually all gone. I do have one bumblebee snail so either it eradicated them all or it was the low calcium. Drop yours to 280 and let me know how it goes..

 

[Doglips56]

They’re the worst. I tore down and restarted a whole 125 due to them. The fact that there is no answer besides bumblebee snails, glue, or manual removal is amazing to me.

We killed them with chemiclean. Cyano was the target but vermited went bye bye but so did a lot of other things so I’m not recommending it!

 

[billyocean]

We killed them with chemiclean. Cyano was the target but vermited went bye bye but so did a lot of other things so I’m not recommending it!

Do tell. Have some cheniclean but not wanting to use it, I keep waiting in hopes I can beat it.

 

[Katrina71]

+1 chemiclean is a double edged sword

 

[miyags]

huh I’ve never heard of coral snow. Just looked it up and I’m definitely going to give it a try!

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