Water Changes = Blood Letting

Reefing Madness · Dec 28, 2013

First Post I came to had pics in it.
people who go with "almost" no Water Changes needed! - Reef Central Online Community
No water changes, need dosing advice - Reef Central Online Community
nanoreef.ro ? Vezi subiect - Acvariu de recif 3 mii de litri
Romanian 750 gal reef tank - Reef Central Online Community

Pappy · Dec 28, 2013

Reefing Madness said:
First Post I came to had pics in it.
people who go with "almost" no Water Changes needed! - Reef Central Online Community
No water changes, need dosing advice - Reef Central Online Community
nanoreef.ro ? Vezi subiect - Acvariu de recif 3 mii de litri
Romanian 750 gal reef tank - Reef Central Online Community

The second link is the only one that had any tanks with sps (unless you want to count montipora which ime just another herpe). I'm not trying to debate til the end of the world but very few and far between are the "nice successful" tanks without any water changes. I put "nice successful" in quotes because I was trying to be specific to sps and my standards are high. I think anyone can grow zoas, toadstools, Kenya, or any other herpe without doing water changes but toilets would be the same environment minus the salinity. This does not mean it is a healthy environment for the animals. In all the rc threads randy Holmes interjected why it's not a good idea.

And to argue what's stated above that newer tanks have more problems....I see the best progress in a lot of newer tanks with optimal conditions versus old tank syndrome.

I will continue the bi weekly water change routine because the cost of my animals and there health far outways a box of reef crystals.

Ole Man · Dec 28, 2013

Wphewwwwww...Is it over yet,what a debate.

glennf · Dec 28, 2013

A sneak vieuw 8y wo waterchanges

JMSKI333 · Dec 28, 2013

glennf said:
A sneak vieuw 8y wo waterchanges

When do we get the full specs of your tank?

Reefing Madness · Dec 28, 2013

glennf said:
A sneak view, 8 mo water changes.

glennf · Dec 28, 2013

JMSKI333 said:
When do we get the full specs of your tank?

what do you like to know ?
just ask

here is my newly started tank thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/large-aquariums-180g/138700-glennfs-300-gallon-dsr-reef.html

just google "glennf dsr"

AquamanE · Dec 28, 2013

Trex said:
With bloodletting new clean blood wasn't put back into the body.

In our tanks, elements (( major, minor, and trace )) are used up -- they need to be replaced, dosing and water changes accomplish this, and (( to a degree )) can be measured --- Cal, Alk, and Mag tests --- to see the difference. Pretty easy to explain, and that isn't even touching on the removal of DOCs, heavy metals and the like that water changes also accomplish.

Dont care to read the rest of this thread since the first person to respond said it well!!!! :horse:

Reefing Madness · Dec 28, 2013

AquamanE said:
Dont care to read the rest of this thread since the first person to respond said it well!!!! :horse:

Not all Tap Water is created equal. Even AZDESERTRAT will say you can run tap water in a reef, its not advisable, but you can do it.

AquamanE · Dec 28, 2013

Reefing Madness said:
Not all Tap Water is created equal. Even AZDESERTRAT will say you can run tap water in a reef, its not advisable, but you can do it.

"Not advisable" should give you a hint.

Even with RO/DI i have had multiple SPS meltdowns in the past due to chloramines, etc....Every meltdown i have had (2 in the last 5 years) have been attributed to make up water. Non measurable by TDS BTW. So imagine tap water.

Do as you feel.

tanked37 · Dec 29, 2013

FlyPenFly said:
It's horribly unscientific yet we just don't really know any better.

It's actually pretty scientific. I know you mentioned that you still do them, but your right, there are many thriving tanks that don't do them so you can go down that road if you want. They just do all the stuff manually that a water change does (ie replacing trace elements), and they virtually all have algae scrubbers.

glennf · Aug 9, 2019

In time the hobby evolves
Things which weren't accepted get accepted.
The minority becomes mainstream.
It's all about innovations that makes our hobby more pleasant.

In holland reefing without WC is now mainstream, because we are always looking for and ecological way to lower our footprint an save on expenses
The result are just fine and more and more reefers are being succesfull and enjoying this hobby.

This is another tank without waterchanges
The EZ550reef started in 2015 and since than no WC.

naterealbig · Aug 9, 2019

Zero water changes on a 5-15 year old tank is a much different method than broadly subscribing to zero water changes.

I would be curious to see how many of these long-established reef tanks required zero water changes in their infancy. I would also be curious to know how many of these hobbyists would do a water change if animals started to die and they didn't know why. Why is the proactive approach worse than the reactive one?.

No person can possibly know every element that is becoming concentrated or depleted, including desirable and undesirable ones. A water change continues (and will continue) to be the easiest way to replenish the good stuff and dilute the bad.

Even the Triton method, which completes ICP testing, tracking, and supplementation for 30 or so minor, major, and trace elements can require water changes.

I would love to not do any water changes on my tank. It's cheap insurance though. I think you've got it completely backwards. We don't do water changes because we don't know any better. We do them because we do know better.

glennf · Aug 9, 2019

naterealbig said:
Zero water changes on a 5-15 year old tank is a much different method than broadly subscribing to zero water changes.

I would be curious to see how many of these long-established reef tanks required zero water changes in their infancy. I would also be curious to know how many of these hobbyists would do a water change if animals started to die and they didn't know why. Why is the proactive approach worse than the reactive one?.

No person can possibly know every element that is becoming concentrated or depleted, including desirable and undesirable ones. A water change continues (and will continue) to be the easiest way to replenish the good stuff and dilute the bad.

Even the Triton method, which completes ICP testing, tracking, and supplementation for 30 or so minor, major, and trace elements can require water changes.

I would love to not do any water changes on my tank. It's cheap insurance though. I think you've got it completely backwards. We don't do water changes because we don't know any better. We do them because we do know better.

We assume it's better.
We can agree to disagree.
At least now we have the choice to do the way we think fits our way of reefing best.

It's not a singularity. A great part off the dutch reefing community go without waterchanges. It's about how well you manage to use the tools given.

It's not theory, fancy tools or fancy setups that make a reeftank flourish, it's about how you go about to get long lasting results.
In the end result is the best proof of concept.

Read into the matter before judging:

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