I've heard some talk about never doing water changes in established tank. But of course required dosing of Calcium, Magnesium, Trace Elements, etc... If Every parameter is right on... Should water changes still be necessary?
Water Changes
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Z06-Hec
Valuable Member
i have cut back on water changing significantly. I used to change 35 gals every 2-3 weeks. Once i started dosing vodka to get rid of Nitrates and phosphates I have been doing water changes much less....
Last time mustve been over a month ago if not longer. I have a batch of water ready for mixing if i need but i have just been running GFO and dosing vodka for the bad... and keeping an eye on the ALK and calcium. I have 2 part just in case i need and make adjustments when needed, which is not often either.
Last time mustve been over a month ago if not longer. I have a batch of water ready for mixing if i need but i have just been running GFO and dosing vodka for the bad... and keeping an eye on the ALK and calcium. I have 2 part just in case i need and make adjustments when needed, which is not often either.
H2O
Well-Known Member
Yes there's a lot of conspiracy around this subject and folks who claim they dont do water changes never show off the tank for that same reason the ones that do a lot of water changes end up on front page looking crazy 120g tank stocked to the rim needs minimum 50 g a month water change to keep things growing not barley holding on to their life
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
Not necessary. IMHO the important thing is to have a balanced stable tank making water change not only unnecessary but actually detrimental.
Paul B only does a only few water changes each year and his tank has been in successful operation for over 40 years.
Eckolancer
LED GURU
Been over a year without water changes. Had to do a 10 gallon change once as I needed to siphon out the sump build up. Growth is crazy and corals are happy as ever. I used to do BRS two part, but switched to cal reactor. Also run a lot of biopellets. I feed a lot and have a lot of fish for my tank as well. I do have to add salt from time to time from sock changes, skim-mate, selling frags, ect...
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Water changes are clearly not "necessary" since some folks have fine reef tanks without them.
But IMO, they are beneficial unless you are going through a lot of trouble to track a wide variety of different things that you need to supplement and/or export (well beyond what there are hobby kits available for).
I discuss water changes here:
Water Changes in Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
I have had several reef tanks over 15 years and now have a 700 gal for over 3 years. I am sure people have gotten away without it but I can tell you from experience a once a month water change is extremely beneficial.
RobberyinCSharp1824
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Please, PLEASE tell me more about this. I've been suffering from really awful back problems the last year or so, and lugging salt water buckets around has definitely exacerbated the problem. To know that this is genuine, and not totally out of line with what the practice has preached for so long, would be such a relief for a faster recovery
RobberyinCSharp1824
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Can you tell me more about dosing? I've never found a clear post regarding this that explains it in detail. I'm not sure what dosed chemical is beneficial / practical to tackle what. I see forum threads with lots of reefers debating it's use and effectiveness, but nothing with a basic breakdown about dosing vinegar, vodka, and the like.
Singlefin
Valuable Member
After I read about a guys tank crashing because of lack of maintenance, I've been trying to be more diligent about water changes. Every 1-2 weeks. Even though my system is stable and on a calcium reactor. Everything looks great. I was already doing it. Just trying not to skip. I also use natural salt water, which is free. There's probably beneficial stuff in natural saltwater we can't test for or may be missing in salt mix.
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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These articles discuss organic carbon dosing:
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium
Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
from the last one:
Organic Carbon Dosing
Organic carbon dosing involves adding a soluble organic compound to the aquarium which spurs bacterial growth. Typical organics used can be ethanol (as vodka), acetic acid (as vinegar), calcium acetate (as lime saturated vinegar), sugar (sucrose) and many others. Vodka and vinegar are by far the most popular. I use vinegar.
These organic molecules can be used by many organisms, including corals, but the main intent is to drive bacterial growth. To grow, the bacteria need a source of nitrogen and a source of phosphate, and a large portion of these they remove directly from the water. The bacteria may grow out of sight (inside live rock or sand, in refugia, in tubing, etc.). They may also grow in globs in the display tank. They have to grow somewhere. If they become unsightly, try dosing a different organic that may drive a different set of species that may grow in a different location. I’ve had them often seem to grow on GAC (granular activated carbon media) in a canister filter I previously used, allowing relatively easy export by rinsing the GAC once every couple of weeks.
I’ve never heard any plausible argument why dosing multiple organics at once is desirable, but many people do it and there is likely no harm in doing so. The idea that multiple organics drive a diversity of bacterial species is just speculation, and even if true, I don’t see the benefit.
The bacteria themselves can then be skimmed out, or used as a food for filter feeders, or both (most people probably have both to some extent, unless they do not use a skimmer). The bacteria may grow partly in low O2 regions (such as in sand or rock) and partly in highly oxygenated environments. Since metabolism in low O2 regions uses relatively more nitrate than phosphate compared to metabolism in a high O2 environment, the relative amounts of nitrate and phosphate reduction an aquarists observes may vary from system to system.
Nitrate is always reduced to a greater extent than phosphate simply because bacteria need a lot more nitrogen than phosphorus, but metabolism of organics in low O2 regions may skew it even more, and sometimes can leave the aquarium with little nitrate and an excess of phosphate that they bacteria don’t “want”. In such a case, a phosphate binder might usefully export this remaining phosphate. Alternatively, some aquarists have dosed nitrate directly to the aquarium to allow the residual phosphate to be consumed.
These linked articles describe vinegar and vodka dosing in more detail.
One potential drawback that may have played a role in some tank problems is that the bacteria that thrive when organic molecules are dosed may be benign (and appear to be in almost all cases), but might actually be pathogenic in others. That is, the added organics may enhance bacterial infections if those bacteria causing the infection (of fish, corals, etc.) are able to take up the added organics and use them to grow faster. I think this risk is low, but it may be real. If you have unexplained problems that might fit this description, and are organic carbon dosing, try not dosing for an extended period.
A second potential drawback of organic carbon dosing is the potential for proliferation of unsightly cyanobacteria in the display tank. There are many species of cyanobacteria, and some can consume the organics we add in this method. If they become a primary consumer, then something may need to be done, such as switching to a different organic compound to dose, or reducing phosphate with a binder such as GFO (granular ferric oxide).
Z06-Hec
Valuable Member
As Randy said above....
I used these readings for some background on it.. I used the chart on this link also on how to do it.
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
I started with a tiny amount, was like .3ML and used the instructions on going higher.
To be 100% honest i am up to 5ML a day and have not found the right dose to completely eliminate nitrate and phosphates all together.
They have gone down significantly but I am still raising the dose weekly to find the amount to get me to 0.
My wife assured me that it has been at least 5 months since my last change and i test the water every few days for nitrates, phosphates, calcium, Alk and Mag.
I have a reef seneye in there so it tells me Ammonia, 02, PH, and Temp at all times.
So i did a water change last night, 35 Gallons. My system is not automatic so i drag a 35 gal drum into the living room and siphon and then refill.
Wasnt bad, was done in about 20 mins.
xtlosx
Community Member
So this is a great thread actually, and it's nice to hear the responses from others on how this may\may not work for them.
Myself, I had a bunch of algae issues in my system (cyano, hair, turf, you name it, I had it) for the first 2 yrs of my system (150G). I was doing 20g weekly, then 40G, and nothing helped it. I just kept doing my normal carbon & GFO, heavy skimming, and one day I ripped out all of those available nutrients that must've been leeching from the rock, or something, who knows at this point. I haven't done a water change since November, and my system looks amazing. Not a speck of algae anywhere, I scrub the glass but 1-2 times a week of a light film, and it's more the beginnings of coraline than algae, and am very pleased with my system. My system consists of 90% acros, a couple of LPS, and a large S. Gigantea. I just don't feel the need to really do one at this point. My acros are growing, color is finally coming in that I'm feeding them more now, and my new skimmer (Skimz SV223 DC) is doing a HECK of a job cleaning up everything in there.
My salinity is 1.025, so it's a tad light from the 1.026 I aim for, so i'll likely do a 1-2G addition here with some high salinity water at some point, but honestly, I'm just not compelled to do one at this point. My alk\calc are stable as could be, growth, color, everything is doing awesome. If it ain't broke... don't fix it I think in my case. Now this isn't to say I won't ever do one again, but I think the addage of religious weekly WCs or your system will explode are overblown... by a LOT. I honestly believe people over complicated this hobby often and confuse beginners, or lead them on wild goose chases.
Anyways, might not be for everyone, but my system is looking better than ever and I haven't changed in months..
Myself, I had a bunch of algae issues in my system (cyano, hair, turf, you name it, I had it) for the first 2 yrs of my system (150G). I was doing 20g weekly, then 40G, and nothing helped it. I just kept doing my normal carbon & GFO, heavy skimming, and one day I ripped out all of those available nutrients that must've been leeching from the rock, or something, who knows at this point. I haven't done a water change since November, and my system looks amazing. Not a speck of algae anywhere, I scrub the glass but 1-2 times a week of a light film, and it's more the beginnings of coraline than algae, and am very pleased with my system. My system consists of 90% acros, a couple of LPS, and a large S. Gigantea. I just don't feel the need to really do one at this point. My acros are growing, color is finally coming in that I'm feeding them more now, and my new skimmer (Skimz SV223 DC) is doing a HECK of a job cleaning up everything in there.
My salinity is 1.025, so it's a tad light from the 1.026 I aim for, so i'll likely do a 1-2G addition here with some high salinity water at some point, but honestly, I'm just not compelled to do one at this point. My alk\calc are stable as could be, growth, color, everything is doing awesome. If it ain't broke... don't fix it I think in my case. Now this isn't to say I won't ever do one again, but I think the addage of religious weekly WCs or your system will explode are overblown... by a LOT. I honestly believe people over complicated this hobby often and confuse beginners, or lead them on wild goose chases.
Anyways, might not be for everyone, but my system is looking better than ever and I haven't changed in months..
