water noise in pvc overflow plumbing.

[Brian W]

I plumbed my 40 gallon breeder with a Glass-Holes 1500 GPH overflow kit ( I am currently only using 1 hole, so its a 700 GPH overflow for now..
I am using 1 1/2 pve with a ball valve. (I was in a rush and should of waited to get a gate valve)

Last night I was running the system and there is just a loud water noise running through the pvc. So loud I can hear it in another room where I sleep. I try and close the ball valve but I just cant get it tuned in. Also my return pump is a MJ1200 temporarily, My Jebao DCP 5000 pump should arrive today.

I plan to order a gate valve today and just leave the ball valve fully open...since this is already cemented in. How do I get rid of this water noise running through the pvc?

 

[MagisterDamask]

Do you have one pipe on a full siphon and one with an air line?

 

[Brian W]

Do you have one pipe on a full siphon and one with an air line?

no I just have 1 pipe closed and the other pipe is where my water is coming through. It has a small hose sticking out of the top.

 

[MagisterDamask]

I think you'll be able to solve your problem once both pipes are functional. I wouldn't worry too much until then.

 

[MagisterDamask]

It also helps if your drain pipes from the overflow end just below the surface of water in the sump. That is if your sump is set up so you can do that.

You want to eliminate as much horizontal pipe as possible that's where some noise will be. The friction from falling straight down and then taking an immediate 90 degree turn will make some noise.

 

[Brian W]

I think you'll be able to solve your problem once both pipes are functional. I wouldn't worry too much until then.

thanks

 

[Brian W]

It also helps if your drain pipes from the overflow end just below the surface of water in the sump.

They are under water. It just does not show it in this pic.

 

[justingraham]

With those 90s it might be hard to purge all the air out of the lines to make it silent and a 1 1/2 pipe full syphon can handle close to 5000 gallons an hour so u might want to make the other one ur secondary line

 

[MagisterDamask]

I edited my last post but I'll put it here too, I think we were typing at the same time.

Horizontal runs of pipe will make some noise if it's on a drain, the friction from falling straight down and then taking an immediate 90 degree turn will make a little noise.

There is debate over the reduction in flow rate from using 90 degree fittings too, I personally believe it's not enough of a reduction to matter.

Good luck and let us know if you get it tuned in.

 

[Brian W]

I edited my last post but I'll put it here too, I think we were typing at the same time.

Horizontal runs of pipe will make some noise if it's on a drain, the friction from falling straight down and then taking an immediate 90 degree turn will make a little noise.

There is debate over the reduction in flow rate from using 90 degree fittings too, I personally believe it's not enough of a reduction to matter.

Good luck and let us know if you get it tuned in.

ok. thanks.

 

[justingraham]

I edited my last post but I'll put it here too, I think we were typing at the same time.

Horizontal runs of pipe will make some noise if it's on a drain, the friction from falling straight down and then taking an immediate 90 degree turn will make a little noise.

There is debate over the reduction in flow rate from using 90 degree fittings too, I personally believe it's not enough of a reduction to matter.

Good luck and let us know if you get it tuned in.

I agree with the 90 the problem isn't the flow it's the abrupt turning that will make the noise also making t harder to purge the air and go full syphon

 

[Brian W]

I agree with the 90 the problem isn't the flow it's the abrupt turning that will make the noise also making t harder to purge the air and go full syphon

I may re-do the entire plumbing and just add 2 90's

have the overflow coming down diagonally....and taking off that hard to turn ball valve.

I already ordered 2 $35 gate valves.

 

[morpheas]

no I just have 1 pipe closed and the other pipe is where my water is coming through. It has a small hose sticking out of the top.

This implies a not full siphon as people pointed out above. Which means that there is mixing of air and water going in your pipe, hence the noise. Being that the pipe is so large, I suspect it exacerbates the echo/noise of the flow. As suggested above, your best bet is to convert this into full siphon (herbie overflow) and that should eliminate all noise. I would install the gate valve on my main drain, remove or plug the tube coming out of the top on the main valve, open the second pipe completely and use as the emergency and reassess the situation. My feel says that you will not have to remove any 90's from the system, once it's converted in full siphon it should just shut up

A word of caution. Once you convert this into full siphon, the water overflow will not stop until there is air breaking into the plumbing (the water level reaches a point in the inlet where air can enter). So, before you do any changes make sure your sump can take the amount of water it will take to break the siphon.

There is debate over the reduction in flow rate from using 90 degree fittings too, I personally believe it's not enough of a reduction to matter.

According to this video from BRS 90 vs 45 doesn't make a difference. Now if you can reduce the number of turns in general that's something that would probably be beneficial.

 

[MagisterDamask]

I agree with the 90 the problem isn't the flow it's the abrupt turning that will make the noise also making t harder to purge the air and go full syphon

I wasn't saying flow was the problem, I was pointing out that it is a subject of debate.

I like for people to see the big picture and know that there are many different opinions and debate subjects on the matter of plumbing. Lots of things to consider, there are many many different ways to plumb a system. What works for me, may not work for you.

The 90 fitting itself isn't the problem, it's the horizontal run of conduit that allows an air pocket to form above the water inside the pipe is the problem. When water falls vertically in a pipe it flows along the walls of the pipe but when it flows horizontally, it's on the lowest point leaving space for air above the water and that air pocket will go away under full siphon, it might just take longer for it to purge.

 

[Brian W]

This implies a not full siphon as people pointed out above. Which means that there is mixing of air and water going in your pipe, hence the noise. Being that the pipe is so large, I suspect it exacerbates the echo/noise of the flow. As suggested above, your best bet is to convert this into full siphon (herbie overflow) and that should eliminate all noise. I would install the gate valve on my main drain, remove or plug the tube coming out of the top on the main valve, open the second pipe completely and use as the emergency and reassess the situation. My feel says that you will not have to remove any 90's from the system, once it's converted in full siphon it should just shut up

A word of caution. Once you convert this into full siphon, the water overflow will not stop until there is air breaking into the plumbing (the water level reaches a point in the inlet where air can enter). So, before you do any changes make sure your sump can take the amount of water it will take to break the siphon.



According to this video from BRS 90 vs 45 doesn't make a difference. Now if you can reduce the number of turns in general that's something that would probably be beneficial.

Im new to plumbing tanks, this is my first tank with a sump. The overflow I am using does not have enough room to do anyting other than stick a 90 halfway in there. the box is roughly 1 1/2 on the inside.
Ho do I create a full siphon? Do you gave a photo or link I can learn? Thanks

 

[MagisterDamask]

A full siphon will start on its own in your overflow box. As long as there is not an airline open and connected to the pipe.

 

[morpheas]

Im new to plumbing tanks, this is my first tank with a sump. The overflow I am using does not have enough room to do anyting other than stick a 90 halfway in there. the box is roughly 1 1/2 on the inside.
Ho do I create a full siphon? Do you gave a photo or link I can learn? Thanks

This is the Herbie Overflow Design (full siphon). If you take a couple of pictures from the box inside maybe we will be able to tell how easy it would be for you to achieve it.

 

[morpheas]

Out of curiosity, how did you come up with 1 1/2" piping? Was it pre-plumbed like that? It is a seriously serious overkill...

 

[MagisterDamask]

As Morpheus said though, you must make sure the sump can handle it, and make sure if the pump fails, that there is enough head room in the sump to allow the remaining water that the siphon will pull down to the sump so it doesn't flood your room.

 

[Brian W]

As Morpheus said though, you must make sure the sump can handle it, and make sure if the pump fails, that there is enough head room in the sump to allow the remaining water that the siphon will pull down to the sump so it doesn't flood your room.

The sump can handle it. It only adds about 6 gallons total in the 20 gallon sump. The bottom of the teeth are about 1/2' underwater.

Thanks