Water pressure question

[aquaman67]

Pull the meter and put a pressure gauge on the line coming in.

that’s all the pressure you’re ever going to get.

you could run a new 2” line from the main into the house and it will have the exact same pressure.

 

[anthonygf]

I’m not confused. Just trying help a fellow reefer. A seperate pressure tank is used in conjunction with a well pump to help prolong the life of the pump. On a well you can adjust the pump settings, and also adjust the air pressure in the tank. On municipal water you don’t have those options. The pressure coming into the house is what it is. It looks like op has a 1/2” fitting on his one inch line which is greatly reducing the volume of water he can receive. If that’s not enough to get him upwards of 45psi he’d be a good candidate for a house booster pump. Most newer design booster pumps have a pressure sensor that tells the pump when to come on, eliminating the need for a pressure tank or reservoir

I tried the pump you mentioned here the one with a sensor. You will not have higher water pressure until you open the faucet then the pump kicks in and can raise the pressure to what it is set at. I tried that type of pump, useless because you still have low pressure when not running.

I have a 45 gallon pressure tank and the bladder pressure can be adjusted but I forget what mine is set at. But I have 75psi until I open the faucet and the booster will kick in at 65psi and out at 75psi. With this setup the pump does not run constantly. This is the best option I have tried, and I tried several configurations.

 

[theMeat]

I tried the pump you mentioned here the one with a sensor. You will not have higher water pressure until you open the faucet then the pump kicks in and can raise the pressure to what it is set at. I tried that type of pump, useless because you still have low pressure when not running.

I have a 45 gallon pressure tank and the bladder pressure can be adjusted but I forget what mine is set at. But I have 75psi until I open the faucet and the booster will kick in at 65psi and out at 75psi. With this setup the pump does not run constantly. This is the best option I have tried, and I tried several configurations.

Both have there place. Why is it a concern that pump doesn’t come on until water is being used? Most pumps have a hi and low set point.
If you have room for a reservoir type pump, it works. The reservoir will prolong the life of the pump because it goes on/off less. But it’s still pumping the same amount of water so electric use is pretty much the same. With a reservoir style there’s also a few more points of failure, and the tank can/will accumulate debris. Depending on the location of the tank it may also effect the temp of all incoming water. Especially when no water has been used for a while

 

[theMeat]

Pull the meter and put a pressure gauge on the line coming in.

that’s all the pressure you’re ever going to get.

you could run a new 2” line from the main into the house and it will have the exact same pressure.

Yes and no. As you open more faucets flow increases, pressure decreases. The smaller the main, or any other parts of the supply, the quicker that happens. One inch main for a single family is enough. Reducing it to 1/2 is not.

 

[anthonygf]

Both have there place. Why is it a concern that pump doesn’t come on until water is being used? Most pumps have a hi and low set point.
If you have room for a reservoir type pump, it works. The reservoir will prolong the life of the pump because it goes on/off less. But it’s still pumping the same amount of water so electric use is pretty much the same. With a reservoir style there’s also a few more points of failure, and the tank can/will accumulate debris. Depending on the location of the tank it may also effect the temp of all incoming water. Especially when no water has been used for a while

If you have 35psi from the municipality you will still have 35psi with the pump that has a sensor to turn on when it detects water running. With the flow off you won't get the high pressure until pump is running, that is not ideal for RODI systems because the amount of water flowing from RODI is not enough to turn the pump on, and with that type of system the pump can remain on for longer periods of time, like when taking a shower, you start off with 35 and while showering the pressure will increase to 65 or cut-off setpoint, then while showering the pressure will drop back down to 35 sometimes lower until pump comes on. That is constant to 65 then down to 35-30 and back up to 65 and on and on.

Lets say you have this type and you have the pressure set to say 65psi, the pump will come on when it senses water flow and will run until it reaches 65psi and pump shuts off, pump will not come on again until the pressure drops to maybe 40psi and turns on again this will cause an uneven constant pressure. I know this because I tried it. I had to remove the sensor and installed a water pressure cut-in and cut=out switch to only vary the pressure difference by only 10psi. I could not adjust the cut-in/cut-out pressures for the sensor type, maybe you can on a high-end unit I don't know. I hope this explains why it would be a concern especially if you need it for your RODI system. I found from trial and error that my final method is best for me, it may not be best for everyone.

 

[anthonygf]

Both have there place. Why is it a concern that pump doesn’t come on until water is being used? Most pumps have a hi and low set point.
If you have room for a reservoir type pump, it works. The reservoir will prolong the life of the pump because it goes on/off less. But it’s still pumping the same amount of water so electric use is pretty much the same. With a reservoir style there’s also a few more points of failure, and the tank can/will accumulate debris. Depending on the location of the tank it may also effect the temp of all incoming water. Especially when no water has been used for a while

I have also found that with a larger pressure tank the pump will run less often and without a tank the pump will come on at times just to maintain that pressure, like if you have a small leak or drip somewhere.

 

[theMeat]

If you have 35psi from the municipality you will still have 35psi with the pump that has a sensor to turn on when it detects water running. With the flow off you won't get the high pressure until pump is running, that is not ideal for RODI systems because the amount of water flowing from RODI is not enough to turn the pump on, and with that type of system the pump can remain on for longer periods of time, like when taking a shower, you start off with 35 and while showering the pressure will increase to 65 or cut-off setpoint, then while showering the pressure will drop back down to 35 sometimes lower until pump comes on. That is constant to 65 then down to 35-30 and back up to 65 and on and on.

Lets say you have this type and you have the pressure set to say 65psi, the pump will come on when it senses water flow and will run until it reaches 65psi and pump shuts off, pump will not come on again until the pressure drops to maybe 40psi and turns on again this will cause an uneven constant pressure. I know this because I tried it. I had to remove the sensor and installed a water pressure cut-in and cut=out switch to only vary the pressure difference by only 10psi. I could not adjust the cut-in/cut-out pressures for the sensor type, maybe you can on a high-end unit I don't know. I hope this explains why it would be a concern especially if you need it for your RODI system. I found from trial and error that my final method is best for me, it may not be best for everyone.

Sounds like you didn’t adjust set points properly, didn’t properly size your booster pump, or didn’t have enough pressure to satisfy your pumps minimum requirements. Whether with tank or tankless there are hi/low set points.

 

[theMeat]

I have also found that with a larger pressure tank the pump will run less often and without a tank the pump will come on at times just to maintain that pressure, like if you have a small leak or drip somewhere.

Exactly. The bigger the tank the less often the pump cycles on/off. It pumps the same amount of gallons regardless.

If you have a leak you should find it and fix it. Would recommend making 70psi the hi set point, 55-60 the low. The higher the pressure, the more likely a leak somewhere.

With variable speed pumps in our hobby becoming the new normal it’s no surprise they have made their way into other applications. Even in a house without the need for a booster pump there are variations in pressure depending on how much water is being used. Not only in house but let’s say in the morning when a few of your neighbors are showering, or their sprinklers are on, etc
If a steadier pressure then a range of let’s say 60-70 is what you need, get a variable speed, otherwise known as constant pressure pump. Not needed on any house application as far I can see. That’s not to say tankless pumps that are not ‘constant pressure’ pumps don’t also come variable speed. They do. The variable is helpful here because it automatically adjusts pump speed depending on how much water is being used.

Oh, and any pump I’ve seen in recent years works on pressure. Another words the pump shuts off when pressure reaches hi set point. Leaving the plumbing in house pressurized at set point. Another words you turn on a faucet it’s at set point. You don’t have to wait for flow to get pressure again

 

[joe0813]

Well, I asked the neighbors and they also only have 35psi at their outside water spigots and have low water pressure in the house. I called the city again and spoke with someone else that said we have low pressure on this street because they used a 25inch water main to feed the hospital down the street. Said the 25inch main was great for volume but terrible for pressure. He also recommended we get a whole house booster.
I also moved the RODI downstairs to see if that helped at all, nope same pressure as upstairs.

 

[anthonygf]

Sounds like you didn’t adjust set points properly, didn’t properly size your booster pump, or didn’t have enough pressure to satisfy your pumps minimum requirements. Whether with tank or tankless there are hi/low set points.

This pump had not way to adjust set points, I disassembled completely and found no way to make adjustments. So I just removed the sensor and installed an industrial type pressure switch with adjustable settings, still using the pump and can get up to 90psi. I have been working with this stuff for forty years and can honestly say I did everything correct.

 

[theMeat]

This pump had not way to adjust set points, I disassembled completely and found no way to make adjustments. So I just removed the sensor and installed an industrial type pressure switch with adjustable settings, still using the pump and can get up to 90psi. I have been working with this stuff for forty years and can honestly say I did everything correct.

Would warn against above 70 psi. Above 80 def not good

For op Joe would also recommend a valve on either side of booster with a bypass, and additional valve on other side of meter for piece of mind

 

[anthonygf]

Exactly. The bigger the tank the less often the pump cycles on/off. It pumps the same amount of gallons regardless.

If you have a leak you should find it and fix it. Would recommend making 70psi the hi set point, 55-60 the low. The higher the pressure, the more likely a leak somewhere.

With variable speed pumps in our hobby becoming the new normal it’s no surprise they have made their way into other applications. Even in a house without the need for a booster pump there are variations in pressure depending on how much water is being used. Not only in house but let’s say in the morning when a few of your neighbors are showering, or their sprinklers are on, etc
If a steadier pressure then a range of let’s say 60-70 is what you need, get a variable speed, otherwise known as constant pressure pump. Not needed on any house application as far I can see. That’s not to say tankless pumps that are not ‘constant pressure’ pumps don’t also come variable speed. They do. The variable is helpful here because it automatically adjusts pump speed depending on how much water is being used.

Oh, and any pump I’ve seen in recent years works on pressure. Another words the pump shuts off when pressure reaches hi set point. Leaving the plumbing in house pressurized at set point. Another words you turn on a faucet it’s at set point. You don’t have to wait for flow to get pressure again

Of course if you have a leak you should fix it. But sometimes you don't know if you have a leak for quite some time. Like my toilet has a small leak internally causing the tank to refill when the float drops to the point it opens the valve. I haven't fixed it yet and can hear it occasionally and is bugging me. Just been to busy lately to fix it.

And the variable speed pumps are more expensive, I paid around $700 for one and works great but springs a leak every year, I buy the kit to rebuild it but I am not going to do this every year. So I buy the cheap pumps with no switching capabilities and use my own pressure switch. So if my pump fails I just buy another for like $60, one lasted a couple years and the impeller busted. I can't find a replacement impeller so I just bought another pump.

 

[anthonygf]

Would warn against above 70 psi. Above 80 def not good

I agree with you there, but I found that out when my hand held shower head exploded in my hand. The pressure slowly crept up to 80psi, so my pressure is set at 70 max and the gauge at my RODI system is at 65psi. Yes it probably should be set lower but I like this pressure.

 

[stevolough]

Yes and no. As you open more faucets flow increases, pressure decreases. The smaller the main, or any other parts of the supply, the quicker that happens. One inch main for a single family is enough. Reducing it to 1/2shouldn’t drop the pressure

Well, I asked the neighbors and they also only have 35psi at their outside water spigots and have low water pressure in the house. I called the city again and spoke with someone else that said we have low pressure on this street because they used a 25inch water main to feed the hospital down the street. Said the 25inch main was great for volume but terrible for pressure. He also recommended we get a whole house booster.
I also moved the RODI downstairs to see if that helped at all, nope same pressure as upstairs.

Possibly like the camp ground I go to your pressure might be better at off peak hours.

 

[anthonygf]

Possibly like the camp ground I go to your pressure might be better at off peak hours.

Yes, I have 40psi city pressure, drops to 30-35 during high demand days. My shower heads used to sing and low spray when I had that low pressure, now I have 70psi and the shower is great. I should lower it to 60-65 but then I only get 50-55 at my RODI and I don't want to reinstall the RODI booster pump.

 

[Dcloser12]

Your meter is a 1/2" meter which is a no go. Bump to a 3/4. That won't increase pressure but it will help flow. Pressure readings should be taken at the main and at the fixture and both compared. Did he run pex and was it a manifold or primary supy lines and tee off? I'm going to assume you have double gated check valve or pressure regulator somewhere. Municipal water should be closer to 48psi.

 

[theMeat]

Well, I asked the neighbors and they also only have 35psi at their outside water spigots and have low water pressure in the house. I called the city again and spoke with someone else that said we have low pressure on this street because they used a 25inch water main to feed the hospital down the street. Said the 25inch main was great for volume but terrible for pressure. He also recommended we get a whole house booster.
I also moved the RODI downstairs to see if that helped at all, nope same pressure as upstairs.

That’s not how it works. Pressure is pressure. If volume can’t keep up with demand pressure will go down with volume. With a 25” main that’s not happening and would be surprised if it’s more than 8 inches and that being more than enough. If the hospital is many stories tall you can bet it has a booster pump, and I’d bet it’s tankless.
Water seeks its own level. In NYC the reservoirs are at 1300 ft elevation. So let’s say in Brooklyn at 30 feet elev you may be able to supply a 6-7 story building. If in the Bronx up on a hill maybe 3 story building is tops. That’s not to say you can’t build higher, you just need to boost pressure. Old school was huge wooden barrels of water on roof.

in some towns there’s a big metal water tower built way up high which determines their water pressure.

in many places it is a pump at municipal that supplies pressure.

 

[joe0813]

Have a few plumbers that should be giving us a quote for the booster pump this week.

 

[stevolough]

That’s not how it works. Pressure is pressure. If volume can’t keep up with demand pressure will go down with volume. With a 25” main that’s not happening and would be surprised if it’s more than 8 inches and that being more than enough. If the hospital is many stories tall you can bet it has a booster pump, and I’d bet it’s tankless.
Water seeks its own level. In NYC the reservoirs are at 1300 ft elevation. So let’s say in Brooklyn at 30 feet elev you may be able to supply a 6-7 story building. If in the Bronx up on a hill maybe 3 story building is tops. That’s not to say you can’t build higher, you just need to boost pressure. Old school was huge wooden barrels of water on roof.

in some towns there’s a big metal water tower built way up high which determines their water pressure.

in many places it is a pump at municipal that supplies pressure.

That’s why they have water towers. Low pressure pumps constantly fill the water towers and gravity would provide the pressure