Water volume expansion reservoir?

[BeanAnimal]

Please move on.

Well - I actually had but white knights like you who ride into a thread for the sole purpose of reprimanding others from their high horse really irritate the snot out of me. Especially when their only contribution is a barb toward somebody else.

Nice contribution to the conversation. Ohh wait, I see... you had no intention of contributing. You are just here to troll for a fight from your high horse

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Wanting the detritus to accumulate and/or dosing nutrients for the sake of having a refugium seems crazy. Oxygen levels should be fine assuming you have a skimmer and enough flow. Ph swinging day to night is completely natural and I've never seen any research suggesting that eliminating it would be beneficial. If a higher overall ph is the goal, why not use some sort of kalk/hydroxide, or look at co2 levels in the house.

Your idea will work fine, no issues there. It just seems like an odd (complicated, cumbersome) way to solve problems that have easier solutions.

I've seen plenty of people adding water volume in a similar fashion, but it's always served another purpose from what I've seen. Extra live rock, dsb, frag tank, etc.

I am aware that I make some choices that seem strange to people. I can try to explain my reasoning, but it probably won't help with your feeling that that the choices are odd. I'm a software engineer, and I tend to lean towards solutions that simultaneously solve multiple problems at once whenever possible. I tend to avoid solutions that cause side effects, because those side effects require more solutions. Sometimes by taking the path that seems more complicated, I can arrive at a simpler system in the long run.

For this example, Coral like higher PHs at night. There are many ways I could solve that problem.

I could regulate the CO2 level in my home, but I live in an apartment, so I can't modify the HVAC to install an air exchanger.

I could run an airline out the window, but I'd have to leave a window open all the time and it gets both very hot and very cold where I live. It would mess with the indoor temp which my wife will not appreciate. I also can't drill through the wall, because I'm renting the apartment.

I could dose kalkwasser overnight, but that means I have to mix kalkwasser daily, or set up a kalk reactor and a doser, which is an annoying amount of expense and/or mess.

Or I could run macroalgae. Which in addition to raising PH, also breeds pods to feed my pod hunters in my tank, as well as supersaturating the dissolved oxygen (I've read studies that coral grow faster at night with higher oxygen levels), as well as leaking sugars into the water which act as a form of carbon dosing which feeds bacteria that can act as a food source for other life forms in the tank. Macroalgae also removes nutrients so it does the job of a skimmer too. All it needs is micros in the form of chaetogro every couple of days.

Macroalgae required the least expense, and had the most benefits. So I chose it. But it worked too well. So now I throttle it back by controlling the light. Now my nutrients are low. And my corals need some nutrients in the water.... So my options to solve that are.... And after a lot of consideration of THOSE options, I ended up dosing nutrients.

And that's how I think about problems. lol

So I'm not really dosing nutrients just to have a fuge. I'm dosing nutrients to replace my skimmer, to replace kalkwasser, to generate pods, and to act as a carbon dosing source in the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Didn’t our famous chemist Randy have pretty much this with 3 brute cans he plumbed together alongside his sump a decade or two ago? He filled his with rock but it was covered. I think he did upflow to minimize the detritus build up.

Yes, something like that. Like I said, I used a similar setup to add 30+ gallons to my system and automate water changes. I never finished the automation part and have long since moved on.

 

[hart24601]

Yes, something like that. Like I said, I used a similar setup to add 30+ gallons to my system and automate water changes. I never finished the automation part and have long since moved on.

I also temporarily had a couple brutes I had connected, originally for ro water storage for discus, that I was going to hook up to my Rubbermaid sump just like Randy had done but decided it just wasn’t worth it for my system before I glued the final connections. Really I just like to talk about Randy when I can

 

[Reefer4fun]

Did you take pictures of the build process? I'd really enjoy seeing them if you did.

No. I didn't. But it's quite simple. I use one of those big boy aqua tanks from Reliance outdoors. It has a 3/4 threaded input. I did have to swap the filling cap from another reliance container with threaded input as well. I also had to cannibalize a pair of u-tubes from my old Eheim canister filters. I connected a sicce 1.5 pump and it was ready to go. It's like a big canister filter with the pump on the inlet side. (Aquarium side).

 

[Derrick0580]

In theory it should work, in concept it’s a great idea, it’s just the logistics of implementation has me stumped

edit- maybe not the actual logistics, but more of the best way to successfully plumb it so it works as intended!

 

[BeanAnimal]

I also temporarily had a couple brutes I had connected, originally for ro water storage for discus, that I was going to hook up to my Rubbermaid sump just like Randy had done but decided it just wasn’t worth it for my system before I glued the final connections. Really I just like to talk about Randy when I can

My whole goal back then was to get ~150 or so true gallons with a 75 gallon display and then automate the 25-30 gallon water changes with a few actuated ball valves and a controller that I built. I had the hayward actuated valves and every thing ready to go.. got sidetracked and never finished it. The container is still a mixing station, but not plumbed into the system. I don't do water changes and like to keep thing simple.

 

[Reefer4fun]

For a traditional aquarium, the common sump is the way to go. But If you have one of those sexy tiny All in Ones. The "Erasmus" tank is the best choice to increase water volume. Specially if you want Acros in there. For me it has been an achievement just to maintain acro frags still colored up for 4 weeks in a row. The alk and nutrient swings were my biggest headache. Now. I have hope!.

 

[ScottD]

So here are a few thoughts I have about this. First you’re running a 40 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump. In reality I’d estimate you have 30-35 gallons of actual water by the time you factor in the displacement of rock, sand etc, the real capacity of your tank and your actual water in your sump, not what it can hold. Adding 50 gallons to this system is going to be equivalent to doing a huge water change and could possible shock your system, especially if your new water differs in any parameters compared to your current water. I would find a way to add it over time, maybe doing some water changes over a few days and keeping the old water to add into the system.

I’m not sure that insulating the added tank is necessary. Depending on how big your heater is and how often it runs the added water might not be that much of a strain on it. Also in summer time the added cooling might negate any heat that’s being added to your system from other sources besides your heater. Not sure what you have for a current heater but to say go from a 50w to 100w heater isn’t going to affect your electric bill in a noticeable way.

Me personally, I would not want to make it completely sealed off with no way of accessing it as I think you’ll want to see what’s going on in there and maybe remove gunk from time to time out of it. I’d also probably want to put a power head of some sort in there to keep things stirred up some. I’d also think about how this will affect the sump. If all the detritus stays in the added cistern, it could change the dynamic of what’s going into your sump and feeding what you have in there, macro, pods etc. whatever starts to grow in there is going to compete with your refugium and corals for food and you may find you’re going to have to dose even more stuff. You’re going to be adding a lot of surface area inside there for stuff to grow on, especially if you put live rock in there.

You’ve mentioned that where you're living now wouldn’t be conducive to adding a 50 gallon container to your system and this would be something for down the road when you get a house. I think I would look at a bigger stand to house a bigger sump in the future. It really wouldn’t be more work to add it in when you move since you’re going to have to move the tank anyways. And in some ways might be easier to move the tank contents to a new tank and sump setup when the time does come to move.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

So here are a few thoughts I have about this. First you’re running a 40 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump. In reality I’d estimate you have 30-35 gallons of actual water by the time you factor in the displacement of rock, sand etc, the real capacity of your tank and your actual water in your sump, not what it can hold. Adding 50 gallons to this system is going to be equivalent to doing a huge water change and could possible shock your system, especially if your new water differs in any parameters compared to your current water. I would find a way to add it over time, maybe doing some water changes over a few days and keeping the old water to add into the system.

Even if your assumptions about the amount of water in my system is correct, that would only be about a 60% water change. It's not unusual for people with 10 gallon pico tanks to do 90% water changes without any losses. And that would only be a one-time risk. You're right that it would swing my parameters. This is just my opinion, but a 60% water change doesn't seem very scary to me.

I’m not sure that insulating the added tank is necessary. Depending on how big your heater is and how often it runs the added water might not be that much of a strain on it. Also in summer time the added cooling might negate any heat that’s being added to your system from other sources besides your heater. Not sure what you have for a current heater but to say go from a 50w to 100w heater isn’t going to affect your electric bill in a noticeable way.

I can afford the bigger electric bill, or more or larger heaters. I'd rather pay for a roll of insulation once instead of paying any more on my electric bill every month, indefinitely. I have no idea how long it would take for the investment in insulation to pay for itself. There are a lot of factors that would go into trying to calculate that. ROI doesn't even really matter to me in this case though. I just really like the idea.

Me personally, I would not want to make it completely sealed off with no way of accessing it as I think you’ll want to see what’s going on in there and maybe remove gunk from time to time out of it. I’d also probably want to put a power head of some sort in there to keep things stirred up some. I’d also think about how this will affect the sump. If all the detritus stays in the added cistern, it could change the dynamic of what’s going into your sump and feeding what you have in there, macro, pods etc. whatever starts to grow in there is going to compete with your refugium and corals for food and you may find you’re going to have to dose even more stuff. You’re going to be adding a lot of surface area inside there for stuff to grow on, especially if you put live rock in there.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of anything that can grow in complete darkness which is capable of reducing nutrients in the water. Maybe anaerobic bacteria turning nitrates into nitrogen gas? But I want to maintain the water capacity in the cistern. I wouldn't add nearly enough rocks or sand to facilitate anaerobic conditions. There will be some flow from the water entering at the bottom and exiting at the top. The newly entering water will be oxygen rich from the display.

Aside from anaerobic bacteria though, everything else that I can think of that might live in there only turns organic matter into nutrients. Life usually requires light and photosynthesis to turn nutrients into organic matter.

You’ve mentioned that where you're living now wouldn’t be conducive to adding a 50 gallon container to your system and this would be something for down the road when you get a house. I think I would look at a bigger stand to house a bigger sump in the future. It really wouldn’t be more work to add it in when you move since you’re going to have to move the tank anyways. And in some ways might be easier to move the tank contents to a new tank and sump setup when the time does come to move.

There has been this assumption throughout this whole thread that I have to pick EITHER a bigger sump OR the expansion reservoir.

My issue with that is that I could absolutely do both if I felt like it. Nothing says that I'm forced to pick between them and do just one or the other. So when people say, "You can build a bigger X to add water to the system"... Well that isn't actually giving me a reason NOT to add an expansion reservoir. Replace X with sump, or display, or stand, or whatever.

As a impractical, but amusing example... What if when I move into my house I do upgrade to a 40 gallon sump, and I place my tank next to a convenient closet. Inside that closet, I put a ridiculous large 300 gallon water tank, and I wrapped that thing in a couple rolls of 8" fluffy pink insulation. I then use that 300 gallon tank as an expansion reservoir.

The 40 gallon display and the 40 gallon sump hold 80 gallons. Which is better than what I have now, absolutely. But the display, plus the sump, plus the 300 gallon cistern holds 380 gallons. Surely it's obvious that 380 gallons is better for stability than 80 gallons, right?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Aside from anaerobic bacteria though, everything else that I can think of that might live in there

Mentioned already several times. There are numerous benthic creatures that thrive in the dark. various sponges, worms and snails, all filter feeders. How that effects negatively or positively to you or your system is up to you.

There has been this assumption throughout this whole thread that I have to pick EITHER a bigger sump OR the expansion reservoir.

People have simply pointed out that there are plenty of ways to add volume... and that regardless of the wording you wish to use your "sealed insulated cistern in a wooden box" is just another sump and most folks don't understand the desire to complicate the issue.

As a impractical, but amusing example... What if when I move into my house I do upgrade to a 40 gallon sump, and I place my tank next to a convenient closet. Inside that closet, I put a ridiculous large 300 gallon water tank, and I wrapped that thing in a couple rolls of 8" fluffy pink insulation. I then use that 300 gallon tank as an expansion reservoir.

Call it what you want -- it is a 300 gallon sump. Sealed lid, pink insulation, closest or not.

That is all that anybody is trying to say. You have spent 5 pages attempting to make some kind of distinction based on the lid, insulation and wooden box.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Blahblahblah

Firstly, this person initiated conversation with me. And I responded. That is the nature of a discussion. I would very much like to respond to people that are trying to talk to me in the thread that I started without your toxicity getting injected.

I know that doesn't match your definition of a discussion, since you prefer to simply restate your own perspective over and over until your 'opponent' gives up out of sheer frustration, as well as accuse people of "strawman arguments" to invalidate their points instead of responding to them. (I was establishing a precedent by using an extremely similar example that had relevance to you, it wasn't even close to a strawman)

Anyway, At no point did anyone ask you for your opinion, which you have already made abundantly clear.

Secondly, I thought you were done with this conversation because it was pointless. I was really enjoying not having to suffer your weird toxicity. Please go away again. You're rude, belligerent, and I you don't listen at all.

 

[ScottD]

Even if your assumptions about the amount of water in my system is correct, that would only be about a 60% water change. It's not unusual for people with 10 gallon pico tanks to do 90% water changes without any losses. And that would only be a one-time risk. You're right that it would swing my parameters. This is just my opinion, but a 60% water change doesn't seem very scary to me.

I would think that the life in a pico tanks are a little more adapt to parameter swings due to the small amount of water and how quickly things can change in one. I’m more familiar with bigger tanks people needing to do big water changes for an emergency, but not saying there aren’t people that do it as normal practice.

I can afford the bigger electric bill, or more or larger heaters. I'd rather pay for a roll of insulation once instead of paying any more on my electric bill every month, indefinitely. I have no idea how long it would take for the investment in insulation to pay for itself. There are a lot of factors that would go into trying to calculate that. ROI doesn't even really matter to me in this case though. I just really like the idea.

I’m just not sure that the insulation is really going to do much and would be worth the effort. My assumption is most heat is transferred through evaporative cooling, not transfer through the sides of containers. But maybe my recollection of heat transfer as part of my mechanical engineering classes is a little fuzzy.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of anything that can grow in complete darkness which is capable of reducing nutrients in the water. Maybe anaerobic bacteria turning nitrates into nitrogen gas? But I want to maintain the water capacity in the cistern. I wouldn't add nearly enough rocks or sand to facilitate anaerobic conditions. There will be some flow from the water entering at the bottom and exiting at the top. The newly entering water will be oxygen rich from the display.

I can think of several things that are. There’s a whole class of corals, NPS (NonPhotoSynthetic) as well as sponges. They’re also animals like brittle star fish, bristleworms, filter feeders that would eat the detritus.

Aside from anaerobic bacteria though, everything else that I can think of that might live in there only turns organic matter into nutrients. Life usually requires light and photosynthesis to turn nutrients into organic matter.



There has been this assumption throughout this whole thread that I have to pick EITHER a bigger sump OR the expansion reservoir.

My issue with that is that I could absolutely do both if I felt like it. Nothing says that I'm forced to pick between them and do just one or the other. So when people say, "You can build a bigger X to add water to the system"... Well that isn't actually giving me a reason NOT to add an expansion reservoir. Replace X with sump, or display, or stand, or whatever.

As a impractical, but amusing example... What if when I move into my house I do upgrade to a 40 gallon sump, and I place my tank next to a convenient closet. Inside that closet, I put a ridiculous large 300 gallon water tank, and I wrapped that thing in a couple rolls of 8" fluffy pink insulation. I then use that 300 gallon tank as an expansion reservoir.

The 40 gallon display and the 40 gallon sump hold 80 gallons. Which is better than what I have now, absolutely. But the display, plus the sump, plus the 300 gallon cistern holds 380 gallons. Surely it's obvious that 380 gallons is better for stability than 80 gallons, right?

And that’s probably where you differ from most people. If I had a closet, I’d either take it out to make room for a bigger display and sump or use it in a way to grow stuff and pay for the hobby or add to my enjoyment of the system. The idea of just adding a water tank to add more volume doesn’t give me much joy. I know the 300 gallon reservoir was an exaggeration but at some point adding more water to a system for only stability purposes becomes ineffective and your returns diminish. What that point is, I’m not sure though.

In saying any of this I’m in no way trying to discourage you from doing it. I was merely just trying to give you some things to think about.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

I’m just not sure that the insulation is really going to do much and would be worth the effort. My assumption is most heat is transferred through evaporative cooling, not transfer through the sides of containers. But maybe my recollection of heat transfer as part of my mechanical engineering classes is a little fuz

I didn't intend to insult your intelligence. I myself am not a mechanical engineer. I know that some heat loss through the sides of the container would happen. Calculating how much heat would be lost, and how much that would cost me in electrical expense is beyond my skillset. It's easier for me to buy a roll of insulation than it would be to figure out how to calculate exactly how much my electric bill would change. So that's what I would probably do.

I can think of several things that are. There’s a whole class of corals, NPS (NonPhotoSynthetic) as well as sponges. They’re also animals like brittle star fish, bristleworms, filter feeders that would eat the detritus.

Right, all of those things eat organic matter and/or detritus (that would normally end up in my filter socks) and turn them into nutrients such as nitrogen or phosphorus. They're decomposers. None of them take nutrients from the water and turn them back into amino acids or carbohydrates. Those nutrients will make their way to my sump and act as fertilizer for my macroalgae. I have to add those same fertilizers by hand anyway.

Autotrophs do turn nutrients into amino acids and/or carbohydrates, but they require an energy source such as light for photosynthesis, or a volcanic vent or something like that.

And that’s probably where you differ from most people. If I had a closet, I’d either take it out to make room for a bigger display and sump or use it in a way to grow stuff and pay for the hobby or add to my enjoyment of the system. The idea of just adding a water tank to add more volume doesn’t give me much joy. I know the 300 gallon reservoir was an exaggeration but at some point adding more water to a system for only stability purposes becomes ineffective and your returns diminish. What that point is, I’m not sure though.

I don't want to take on the responsibility of a gigantic display with many thousands and thousands of dollars worth of living animals. Huge tanks are awesome, and when I'm at a zoo or a public aquarium, I'm in awe of them. I'm just pretty happy with the size of tank that I have now. My sump holds all the equipment that I want it to. I don't need or want any more random stuff.

All that I want is for my fish, coral, and macroalgae to live their best lives that I'm capable of providing for them. And a part (not the only part, or even the biggest part) is slowing down the rate of changes in the water chemistry, and protecting my pets from the fallout when something in the tank eventually dies.

I don't want more pets. I don't want more gear. I just want more water to slow down the chemistry.

I didn't expect this desire to be so controversial.

In saying any of this I’m in no way trying to discourage you from doing it. I was merely just trying to give you some things to think about.

You did give me things to think about. I'm not discouraged. In fact, thank you for responding and giving me your thoughts! I really do appreciate them.

Am I coming across as emotional, or confrontational or something? Because I don't mean to. I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate to explore the ideas.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Firstly, this person initiated conversation with me. And I responded. That is the nature of a discussion. I would very much like to respond to people that are trying to talk to me in the thread that I started without your toxicity getting injected.

Toxicity... the modern response for anything disagreeable. I have been rather polite to you actually and attempted to answer your questions directly and honestly.

As for the nature of the discussion. You are posting and commenting in a public forum. If you want to have a private conversation then take your conversation private. Otherwise, put on your big boy pants and deal with the responses and conversation that develop or alternatively ignore them or use the ignore feature.

Secondly, I thought you were done with this conversation because it was pointless. I was really enjoying not having to suffer your weird toxicity. Please go away again. You're rude, belligerent, and I you don't listen at all.

I was done - but I (honestly) can't help but interject because you have basically talked yourself in circles trying to tell every responder here why they are wrong and that this is something wholly different. It is a sump with a lid an insulation, no more no less.

 

[xiaoxiy]

I assume you're talking about the remote cistern not the gigantic stock tank? If you're talking about the stock tank setup, my bad. I misunderstood.

I attempted to draw you an incredibly terrible diagram in MSPaint to communicate how I was planning on handling the plumbing and water level in my barrel expansion. I would probably use a couple of bulkheads on the barrel and some plumbing inside to add water from the bottom, and extract water from the top using some kind of overflow or standpipe.

Remember to make sure that your 20 gallon sump have the capacity to hold the extra volume that the "cistern" will dump if your return pump gets turned off. Would suck to forget to account for the potential overflow water volume and end up with a lot of water on your floor.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Toxicity... the modern response for anything disagreeable. I have been rather polite to you actually and attempted to answer your questions directly and honestly.

If this connection with you can be salvaged, then I would prefer that to blocking you.

To that end, let me try this again. Explain to me how this specific configuration of sump, lid, insulation, and box is different in nature to your specific configuration of weir, standpipe, siphon, and valve? It's not, and you know it. I do not believe that you can answer that question.

As for the nature of the discussion. You are posting and commenting in a public forum. If you want to have a private conversation then take your conversation private. Otherwise, put on your big boy pants and deal with the responses or alternatively ignore them or use the ignore feature.

I don't want to have a private discussion. I want to have a public discussion without a heckler throwing eggs at me everytime I speak. I don't want to ignore you. I want you to take a chill pill.

I was done - but I (honestly) can't help but interject because you have basically talked yourself in circles trying to tell every responder here why they are wrong and that this is something wholly different. It is a sump with a lid an insulation, no more no less.

I know it's a sump. I know. I get it. You made your point. You win. People are still going to ask me stuff, I'm still going to respond to them.

I'm not just asserting stuff as selling points to try and con money out of people or something. People keep asking me questions. "Why not build a bigger sump?", "Why not build a bigger display?" , "Why do you want to use insulation?", etc, etc.

So I answer the questions that people are asking, and I address the concerns that they raise. "I don't want a bigger display because X", "I don't want a bigger sump because Y", "I like the idea of insulation because Z".

It's all part of having a conversation. You're being super aggressive for no reason.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would think that the life in a pico tanks are a little more adapt to parameter swings due to the small amount of water and how quickly things can change in one. I’m more familiar with bigger tanks people needing to do big water changes for an emergency, but not saying there aren’t people that do it as normal practice.

There are/were many of us who do 75% or similar water changes for various reasons. Yes, it can shock fish or corals if pH and other parameters are not close. I think the advice to be careful is sound though. Adding a large volume like that may be best done (as you suggest) in small increments instead of wholesale to be safe.

I’m just not sure that the insulation is really going to do much and would be worth the effort. My assumption is most heat is transferred through evaporative cooling, not transfer through the sides of containers. But maybe my recollection of heat transfer as part of my mechanical engineering classes is a little fuzzy.

It depends on the surface area of the water and/or the system container(s). Aside from evaporation thermal conductivity (based on the Fourier equation) is where most of the heat goes.

You get 8,092 BTUs of heat transfer per gallon of water evaporated. That is extremely efficient and significant.
I don't feel well enough to do the math right now, but for the purposes of this thread. The tank's thermal conductivity would be significantly higher than that of the plastic (likely HDPE) cistern. Of course the Delta T between the tank/vessel and the room come into play as well.

Glass has a thermal conductivity of anealed glass is 1 W/(m·K) and HDPE or similar plastic in the .1 W/(m·K) range... so significantly less.

If you really feel like doing the math, I wrote an article on the subject years ago.

Thermodynamics for the Reef Aquarist | BeanAnimal's Reef

Why is my fish tank (aquarium) overheating? Basic thermodynamics explained and applied. Answers tp simple questions regarding aquarium temperature control.

beananimal.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

Remember to make sure that your 20 gallon sump have the capacity to hold the extra volume that the "cistern" will dump if your return pump gets turned off. Would suck to forget to account for the potential overflow water volume and end up with a lot of water on your floor.

You would want to run this as you would any tank or series sump... with an overflow (a simple standpipe) so that it would not drain in a power outage or pump failure.

 

[ScottD]

I didn't intend to insult your intelligence. I myself am not a mechanical engineer. I know that some heat loss through the sides of the container would happen. Calculating how much heat would be lost, and how much that would cost me in electrical expense is beyond my skillset. It's easier for me to buy a roll of insulation than it would be to figure out how to calculate exactly how much my electric bill would change. So that's what I would probably do.

I didn’t feel like you were insulting me. I was more or less just trying to make a point that I think you’re over thinking the effects of insulation. But It’s also been 15 years since I took heat transfer classes and I haven’t used it since then so my assumptions might be off the mark as well

Right, all of those things eat organic matter and/or detritus (that would normally end up in my filter socks) and turn them into nutrients such as nitrogen or phosphorus. They're decomposers. None of them take nutrients from the water and turn them back into amino acids or carbohydrates. Those nutrients will make their way to my sump and act as fertilizer for my macroalgae. I have to add those same fertilizers by hand anyway.

Autotrophs do turn nutrients into amino acids and/or carbohydrates, but they require an energy source such as light for photosynthesis, or a volcanic vent or something like that.

What you might find though is your colony of pods may shift to the cistern instead of your refugium due to where the food is and lose the benefit of them being pumped up into you display and feeding your fish.

I don't want to take on the responsibility of a gigantic display with many thousands and thousands of dollars worth of living animals. Huge tanks are awesome, and when I'm at a zoo or a public aquarium, I'm in awe of them. I'm just pretty happy with the size of tank that I have now. My sump holds all the equipment that I want it to. I don't need or want any more random stuff.

I guess most people don’t think like that and are looking for bigger displays for one reason or another. That’s probably why it keeps getting suggested. Now if you were to go to a bigger tank, there’s no reason why you have to add any more livestock. In fact some fish might be even happier with more space to move about.

one thing I just thought about that maybe has gotten lost in translation. Just having more water only aides in diluting things like ammonia spikes and such. If you were to add more space for live rock than that would aid in areas for bacteria to combat it instead.

All that I want is for my fish, coral, and macroalgae to live their best lives that I'm capable of providing for them. And a part (not the only part, or even the biggest part) is slowing down the rate of changes in the water chemistry, and protecting my pets from the fallout when something in the tank eventually dies.

I don't want more pets. I don't want more gear. I just want more water to slow down the chemistry.

I didn't expect this desire to be so controversial.



You did give me things to think about. I'm not discouraged. In fact, thank you for responding and giving me your thoughts! I really do appreciate them.

Am I coming across as emotional, or confrontational or something? Because I don't mean to. I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate to explore the ideas.

Sometimes being the devils advocate can make it come across as being confrontational. Which is just the nature of debating. I just wanted to make it clear from my side that I wasn’t trying to dissuade or discourage you. I enjoy stuff like this as i find it’s a way to learn.