We are all suckers!

[bruno3047]

You quoted me talking about zoas. You bring in a video about acropora colonies?
Acropora colonies ALWAYS cost alot even back in the day before you started reefing.

Show me the video of the huge shipment of the "Grand Master Krak" zoas that sell for $150 per polyp.
Justify to me the cost of a single zoanthid polyp and the profit margins.

Hey dude. I was talking about coral collecting. You were talking about zoos, not me. Stick to the truth..

 

[EugeneVan]

Amazon black boxes(vipraspectra, Smat farms etc). Love them. So you are right all suckers buying those expensive ones.

I used 2 vipraspectra for my 200 gal reef tank. All my SPS are growing just fine. The way I can tell they are growing well is they suck up my dKH like a pig. All I have to do to make the vipraspectra better is change out some of the white LED to blue and violet spectrum. My total cost of lighting is less than $600. I can use all the left over money to buy lots of nice SPS

 

[Woodyman]

You quoted me talking about zoas. You bring in a video about acropora colonies?

Show me the video of the huge shipment of the "Grand Master Krak" zoas that sell for $150 per polyp.
Justify to me the cost of a single zoanthid polyp and the profit margins.

You quoted me talking about zoas. You bring in a video about acropora colonies?
Acropora colonies ALWAYS cost alot even back in the day before you started reefing.

Show me the video of the huge shipment of the "Grand Master Krak" zoas that sell for $150 per polyp.
Justify to me the cost of a single zoanthid polyp and the profit margins.

The only person that needs to justify the cost is yourself. If multiple vendors have the same piece they self regulate to an extent.

If you can justify the 'want' to the price you buy it. If not you don't.

If I want to pay 150+ for a zoa that's my choice. Why does everyone want to argue about what is fair or not. This is a hobby, an elective, no one is being forced to participate.

The supply and demand of the hobby sets the price. If I can't justify a price I don't buy, if enough of us can't justify the price (or supply goes up) the price will fall.

If I choose to buy only $10-$30 corals again my choice and my tank/enjoyment. At the end of the day I only have to justify the price to myself (I guess my wife, but that's another story!).

 

[JimmyV]

Well you got lucky then. I’m sure there are plenty out there that didn’t get the same result you did. But also with your 165 dollar black box light you don’t get the extremely controlability that I have with my 3 xr15 g5 blues. If you are happy then it’s money well spent.

Yea I'm not saying that all that fancy controlability wouldn't be fun to play with but really you just end up setting it and leave it so your only paying for only once maybe twice of adjusting your lights . So in reality how is that even worth it.

 

[Fishy888]

You're not just paying for the item, you're paying for customer service, research, etc etc. Buy one of those 100 chinese lights and tell me how great the customer service is when it burns the house down. Not to mention it has no Wifi compatability, etc etc.

To a degree I agree. The lights that have storm modes, wifi, etc are going to be much more complex than a simple shop light. I expect those to be 2 or 3 times the price. I have no problem with that.

That said the more expensive lights are often made in the same Chinese factory on the same machinery as the LED pucks you get at big box stores, not to mention they are often made with the same materials.

The problem is not limited to lighting however. Dry goods are ridiculously expensive. Someone mentioned algae scrapers being ridiculously priced. When I first set my tank up I remember the ridiculously high prices for flake food. I compared the ingredients for freshwater flake to saltwater flake and they are almost exactly the same. Yet one is twice the price of the other.

Even coral is ridiculously priced. Is a 1 inch frag of pulsing xenia REALLY worth $130? Of course not. As long as people are willing to pay ridiculous prices they will only go up.

We are our only line of defense. The more we help each other the better off we all are. I see many people here helping others out. That is one of the biggest reasons I love R2R.

 

[bruno3047]

Yea I'm not saying that all that fancy controlability wouldn't be fun to play with but really you just end up setting it and leave it so your only paying for only once maybe twice of adjusting your lights . So in reality how is that even worth

To a degree I agree. The lights that have storm modes, wifi, etc are going to be much more complex than a simple shop light. I expect those to be 2 or 3 times the price. I have no problem with that.

That said the more expensive lights are often made in the same Chinese factory on the same machinery as the LED pucks you get at big box stores, not to mention they are often made with the same materials.

The problem is not limited to lighting however. Dry goods are ridiculously expensive. Someone mentioned algae scrapers being ridiculously priced. When I first set my tank up I remember the ridiculously high prices for flake food. I compared the ingredients for freshwater flake to saltwater flake and they are almost exactly the same. Yet one is twice the price of the other.

Even coral is ridiculously priced. Is a 1 inch frag of pulsing xenia REALLY worth $130? Of course not. As long as people are willing to pay ridiculous prices they will only go up.

We are our only line of defense. The more we help each other the better off we all are. I see many people here helping others out. That is one of the biggest reasons I love R2R.

That’s why I come here. To help other people. I never jump into anyone else’s ****. And I hate when people jump into mine. If you challenge me, you’re going to get a response.

 

[MichaelReefer]

To a degree I agree. The lights that have storm modes, wifi, etc are going to be much more complex than a simple shop light. I expect those to be 2 or 3 times the price. I have no problem with that.

That said the more expensive lights are often made in the same Chinese factory on the same machinery as the LED pucks you get at big box stores, not to mention they are often made with the same materials.

The problem is not limited to lighting however. Dry goods are ridiculously expensive. Someone mentioned algae scrapers being ridiculously priced. When I first set my tank up I remember the ridiculously high prices for flake food. I compared the ingredients for freshwater flake to saltwater flake and they are almost exactly the same. Yet one is twice the price of the other.

Even coral is ridiculously priced. Is a 1 inch frag of pulsing xenia REALLY worth $130? Of course not. As long as people are willing to pay ridiculous prices they will only go up.

We are our only line of defense. The more we help each other the better off we all are. I see many people here helping others out. That is one of the biggest reasons I love R2R.

Again, I feel like most of the cost increase is both development and technical support. A lot of these cheap black box's, if they break or have problems you cant just call someone. Service is a very large majority of the price. I'm not saying some are a little ridiculous, but if people are going to pay then people are going to make them. Remember, these companies have to pay employees, pay for a location, phones, etc etc.

Coral wise, remember that most of it is hobbyist to hobbyist. I am fortunate and have a VERY good relationship with my LFS so I get my prices brought down a bit, closer to wholesale. Personally I would never spend more than 50-60 bucks on a frag, EVER. But I am also in a different stage of my life. I bought a house, and planning a wedding, etc etc. Maybe some people are willing to spend $200 on a frag, but I sure as heck aint. There are plenty of coral out there that are under 50 bucks a frag that look great.

Unfortunately we are in an expensive hobby. When I tell people what I've spent on my tank and all my equipment they are shocked. But you have to pay to play the game.

 

[Double monti 61]

Hi I use a led fixture made by current it comes with a lighting controller that is adjustable for sunrise and sunset and intensity and of course on and off timing the one I purchased has worked well and cost less than $150 dollars I think that is a good deal!

 

[Double monti 61]

I forgot to mention the current control also simulates storms and passing clouds.

 

[Sean_B]

Suckers or not, they simply charge what people will pay. Capitalism.

I love fish! on a side note capitalism has nothing to do with overcharging consumers or monopolies!

when government effects resources and labor, they control consumer pricing, with an immediate effect on capitalism.

 

[Kfactor]

for me i dont mind spending the money but for me its all about warranty and with high price i would like a good warranty not a year. i think with a year warranty the dont expect it to last but thats just my 2 cents

 

[GARRIGA]

I’m not risking my family’s life with some Chinese black box solution because I’m being ripped off. Goldfish are fun too. There’s always another option.

 

[Woodyman]

I love fish! on a side note capitalism has nothing to do with overcharging consumers or monopolies!

when government effects resources and labor, they control consumer pricing, with an immediate effect on capitalism.

I love my fish too, but I need to correct you, and I do this in the nicest way, no disrespect intended.

But...

Capitalism has profit in the definition, you don't profit without an overcharge. That's the definition of profit.

Government control would also not follow the definition of capitalism.

 

[reefiniteasy]

Speak for yourself. I buy what I want, what I can afford and what makes me happy. Case closed. The rest of this debate is stupid.

 

[Woodyman]

Speak for yourself. I buy what I want, what I can afford and what makes me happy. Case closed. The rest of this debate is stupid.

I to don't understand why everyone wants to yell about what others choose to buy with their own money. That instant ocean thread is countless pages of the same thing happening here, and for what reason. We have choices neither of us has to agree or live with the ones each other makes.

 

[Woodyman]

Post in thread 'We are all suckers!' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/we-are-all-suckers.895243/post-9945362

Leave this here again and go back to my Friday night beverage. I may need a second this week after this.

 

[Kyle T.]

Also consider that the price you pay isn’t the price that the light company gets for the light. You paying $1000 isn’t going to that company’s pocket, they are selling at a lower price to your retailer of choice who then has to list it at no lower than the regulated MAP price to keep price points the same across all online vendors as well as give brick and mortar stores some room to compete.

 

[Dbichler]

From 2006 anyone recognize which black box this is not considered black box anymore so who’s knocking.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Why do protein skimmers cost as much as LED's?

Occam's Razor: Because people are willing to pay for it.

 

[Derrick0580]

We are our only line of defense. The more we help each other the better off we all are. I see many people here helping others out. That is one of the biggest reasons I love R2R.

Never were truer words spoken! I’ve gotten a lot of nice frags from friends for free or from trades and they are some of the corals doing the best in my tank. I’d rather get a coral from a fellow hobbyist because it’s used to captive conditions and I can find out their exact parameters! Plus I’m not paying for the overhead of suppliers and retailers through dealing with other hobbyists and friends! I have a close buddy that he and I will even split the price of a frag and frag it smaller if it’s large enough or just wait for it to grow large enough in one of our tanks to frag some off for the other! Just need to find more hobbyist in my area so connect with!