We Should Vote With Our Wallets!!!

[Ranjib]

@MnFish1

Amen

 

[Legal Reefer]

Whatever the market will bear. As long as someone is willing to pay the high price the price will stay high. Can't blame anyone for buying what they want if they can afford it. I would if I could. But it is a shame that a lot of the hobby equipment seems to be way over priced. A lot of people will argue the case of overhead for production and sales and on and on. It may be true on some items, but I myself believe as many others do that it's getting ridiculous. I will continue to buy Chinese on some items until I can afford not to, or until the American suppliers decide to be more reasonable on their pricing. I have seen cheaper Chinese made products crash and burn and I have seen the higher end products crash and burn. I use a $70.00 black box light and my most expensive coral was $20.00. This is a very enjoyable hobby to me and I have the time to invest in my little reef to maintain it without all the bells, whistles, and automation that aren't a necessity. Don't get me wrong though, if I was financially able I would have every piece of equipment and tech available ...lol...

 

[jasonrusso]

That's why I buy jebao. I do spend when it counts, but is one water splasher 10x better than another that has similar features? There are things that count and things that are hype. My reef octopus 220 skimmer is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship and parts are affordable and easy to repair. Coralvue support is great, like really great, so when I find a good company, I support them, but it's really a financial decision as their equipment is going to last because I can repair it. Everything breaks eventually, if your investment can be kept up with modest costs in the long run, it's cheaper than buying two in the same 10 year stretch. With that said, maybe a tunze or vortex is a better water splasher that lasts longer... It's a decision everyone has to make for themselves what has value.

I had a thread earlier this year asking if people thought Jeabo was junk. I had several responses saying they would never use Chinese crap. So when you buy a Vertex pump for 5 times as much as a Jeabo (with a one year warranty) and it fails 18 months later, what does the company tell you. POUND SAND!

I have a Jeabo pump running my UV sterilizer. I still won't use a DC on my main return. That is reserved for a 2 big bulky Eheim AC pumps (which in comparison to the DC pumps) that are affordable

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Amen

That ricordia tho! I’ve been on the hunt for one of those

 

[jasonrusso]

That ricordia tho! I’ve been on the hunt for one of those

I have an appointment tomorrow to buy a purple aussie torch frag for $40. They guy grows them in his basement. He says "if I have a bunch, why should I sell them for $100+ just because I am supposed to?"

 

[Velcro]

I have an appointment tomorrow to buy a purple aussie torch frag for $40. They guy grows them in his basement. He says "if I have a bunch, why should I sell them for $100+ just because I am supposed to?"

They’ll sell fast and the we will be back to the normal price. It’s really simple economics and these threads are pointless.

 

[jasonrusso]

They’ll sell fast and the we will be back to the normal price. It’s really simple economics and these threads are pointless.

But you still read it and made a comment. Why was that? Do you feel it was helpful?

 

[Dom274]

Really it’s greed tho because if these CFOs weren’t trying to get rich. Or get payed 200x more then some of they’re employees,they wouldn’t need to source this stuff in China. I don’t mind paying top dollar for quality but i do mind paying top dollar for China crap that’s being promoted as quality.

+++++

 

[Benga]

I DIY where I can and buy with what makes sense for me, my application, and my what can I get away with budget.

Some companies overcharge for specific reasons though. Most are likely either they have the patent for the tech so they'll overprice it while they can (I think ecotech does this) and others do it because of economies of scale. Realistically there aren't millions of people buying these products and so they can't mass produce in bulk so costs end up rising because of this.

 

[madweazl]

I feel like there is way more variation in value in reefing than in automotive. New Deltec dc skimmer with Jebao pump is a waste compared to a RO with a Varios pump. I am not knocking either selection, I actually use Coral Box and I like them quite a bit.

What do you base this comment on? Do you have something that has measured the difference between the two or are you just unwilling to spend the money on one so you post a baseless response? Nobody forces anyone to purchase one over the other, they do it because they want to, regardless of reason.

Like you said more people could enjoy this hobby if money wasn’t the only thing keeping the world turning

There are plenty of ways to enjoy this hobby without breaking the bank. If you're willing to do frequent water changes, you dont need the vast majority of the equipment or additives that are being sold. 20+ years ago I was keeping a reef alive on a budget that precluded just about everything but the true essentials but I did it; that is still every bit as possible today as it was then.

I agree all the way up to Ecotech being great. I think they used to be a good premium product producing company. Now they make cheap products marketed as premium. They are like a poor facsimile of Apple. Closed ecosystem and all. Even the radions are poor value in my opinion.

And again, baseless comments.

People do vote with their wallets. Lol. That why some equipment that s more expansive than others. This seems like the silliest post I’ve ever seen here. Either this is a joke or you don’t understand markets

For a change, we finally agree on something!

 

[Ranjib]

That ricordia tho! I’ve been on the hunt for one of those

They are like 15$ here, in bay area

 

[Forsaken77]

People do vote with their wallets. Lol. That why some equipment that s more expansive than others. This seems like the silliest post I’ve ever seen here. Either this is a joke or you don’t understand markets

I think you're missing the point, as usual. Do you really think an Ecotech MP-60 is really worth over $600 for a powerhead? NO! And if you go look at some reviews on BRS, I believe it's around a 3 star rating.

I think a lot of people end up buying certain brands because LFS's push it on people because of the markup, people on forums say this is the best brand, or other people just want to say they have a high dollar piece of gear.

I will never vouche for a Jebao anything. I think overall they are crap as a brand. But I think middle of the road products are just as good, if not better, than some high-end brands.

I have these products to back up my claims. I have MP-40's and they are on par with the Sicce Xtreme pumps. Though you can buy 3 Sicce's for 1 MP-40. The Sicce is smaller and can be angled. The MP-40 is static with a dc pump that's external.

I have two Maxspect XF-250 Gyres and I have an Icecap Gyre. Not much of a difference in performance (a little, not much) except the Maxspect can do 2 gyres, yet the price is substantially different.

The Reef Octopus VarioS return pumps are a much better bang for your buck than an Ecotech Vectra.

I've given in to the thought process that the more money you throw at it, the better it should be. But that simply isn't the case. Haven't you noticed prices keep dramatically climbing with little to no improvements? Most skimmers use the same Sicce pumps and similar bodies, yet there's a few hundred dollar differences in price because of the name on the package.

I'm not talking global economics here. I'm talking strictly our hobby.

But you keep spending away on those products that just tells manufacturers we're as big of suckers as they think.

 

[Forsaken77]

We DO vote with our wallets. Ecotech has been in business for this long because they make amazing pumps. I didn’t spend $700 on powerheads because I wanted the street cred. I spent it because I was sick of jebao pumps stopping for no reason and needing to be cleaned every two weeks for decent flow.

Did you ever check out Sicce Xtreme pumps? On par with MP40's at a third of the price. I know this because I own both. Or are the cords worth $200?

Ecotech isn't what it used to be, imo. Their quality has went down, while their prices go up. And they know this.

 

[Forsaken77]

That’s right man and believe that those Chris Farley companies still exist we just gotta find them before they turn mainstream on us haha

It seems most of the sheeple have already let them turn mainstream. I'm trying to turn it back, lol. Or at least open some eyes.

 

[rushbattle]

What do you base this comment on? Do you have something that has measured the difference between the two or are you just unwilling to spend the money on one so you post a baseless response? Nobody forces anyone to purchase one over the other, they do it because they want to, regardless of reason.

And again, baseless comments.

So your brilliant argument is that because I didn’t directly site any studies or objective data, without providing any of your own, and deciding that my claims are baseless; I am wrong and you are right? Lol. Good luck with that approach throughout your life.

Ok, ok. I’ll play. Deltec skimmer bodies have recently been shown to crack because they are cheaply made thin plastic. With cheaply made Chinese knock off DC pumps. Sold for premium prices.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/deltec-skimmers-seem-very-cheaply-made.343664/

Much like the cheaply made wet sides for ecotech pumps that rust. Who also charge a premium.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...when-it-comes-to-ecotech.334468/#post-4161452

These are just lazy examples from cursory searches.

Where are the pictures of rusted or cracked RO Elite skimmers? Or BK? Nyos? All premium brands, but with no examples of poor quality. Just as counter examples, by no means are any of these examples exhaustive.

Hope you have good luck with your approach, you may need it.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

They are like 15$ here, in bay area

I just don’t see any down here in the coechella valley area. Other then the way pain ones

 

[Forsaken77]

So your brilliant argument is that because I didn’t directly site any studies or objective data, without providing any of your own, and deciding that my claims are baseless; I am wrong and you are right? Lol. Good luck with that approach throughout your life.

Ok, ok. I’ll play. Deltec skimmer bodies have recently been shown to crack because they are cheaply made thin plastic. With cheaply made Chinese knock off DC pumps. Sold for premium prices.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/deltec-skimmers-seem-very-cheaply-made.343664/

Much like the cheaply made wet sides for ecotech pumps that rust. Who also charge a premium.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...when-it-comes-to-ecotech.334468/#post-4161452

These are just lazy examples from cursory searches.

Where are the pictures of rusted or cracked RO Elite skimmers? Or BK? Nyos? All premium brands, but with no examples of poor quality. Just as counter examples, by no means are any of these examples exhaustive.

Hope you have good luck with your approach, you may need it.

Haha... That Deltec thread was mine also, lol. True, the DC version uses Jebao pumps, the AC version is built on tried & true. It was just the build quality that concerned me. But I think he's missing the point also.

 

[rushbattle]

Haha... That Deltec thread was mine also, lol. True, the DC version uses Jebao pumps, the AC version is built on tried & true. It was just the build quality that concerned me.

Didn't even notice you were OP! Cheap plastic parts are just as much a problem as failing pumps. Hope it all works out for you. Those images are disturbing.

 

[JonPhillips]

For many of us, it’s the research and time spent reading and being an informed consumer that makes this hobby interesting. I mean, we all are making different choices, but trying to achieve the same result. All of us a some point suffer from GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It difficult not to want the best gadgets we can afford because it’s cool! Take a picture of just a reef though and you have no idea what’s running it and chances are your surprised at how humble the equipment is that’s actually keeping it going. The only point is that it’s thriving. Many are old school, some are new school. The only thing I have to compare this hobby to is photography. Outrageous prices for gear there as well, but, at the end of the day, no one really cares what camera, lens, or settings you used, just how good the shot was. Now you can run a reef without bells and whistles, but how valuable is your time? You can get a great picture with a cheap camera, but how valuable is your time? Is $600 for a pump too much. Yup. But people are feeding their families from our pump purchases. There are solid companies it’s seems that are bringing it back to normal. Like Avast Marine, for example. I hear there making stuff in the USA that just works and you can call them and talk to them. It’s tough for the little guy making products in our industry. It’s a vicious circle: company makes product, gives it to youtuber, youtuber gets ad revenue for liking the product and showing it works, we buy the product because we want reefs like them...I think distributors like BRS are the ones we need to support and really vote for. They are keeping these companies accountable by doing actual long term tests to see if their claims hold up to their marketing hype. And then asking us to comment about what “features” we would like to see. The key for me isn’t driving the price back down, it’s keeping the quality where the price is going by forcing companies to listen to consumers. Within the next 10 years I think we’ll the first “smart tank” a tank run totally from automation. Some people want that ULM tank. More time enjoying, less time cleaning. Some enjoy the process of the effort more than just sitting back. But your right, there’s a poor mans way or reefing and a rich mans way and the gap between them seems to be widening, with little to no middle ground.

 

[Velcro]

But you still read it and made a comment. Why was that? Do you feel it was helpful?

Yes