We Should Vote With Our Wallets!!!

Did you ever check out Sicce Xtreme pumps? On par with MP40's at a third of the price. I know this because I own both. Or are the cords worth $200?

Ecotech isn't what it used to be, imo. Their quality has went down, while their prices go up. And they know this.

Are you comparing the non controllable sicces to Vortech? The controllable ones are $100 cheaper than an mp40 and have less flow.

As far as quality, I’ve never had any issue with my mp40s in three years. I’ve even dropped the motors several times. The price has been the same on my pumps for over three years as well. My friend had a motor die on his out of warranty mp40 and they replaced it at no cost.
 
So your brilliant argument is that because I didn’t directly site any studies or objective data, without providing any of your own, and deciding that my claims are baseless; I am wrong and you are right? Lol. Good luck with that approach throughout your life.

Ok, ok. I’ll play. Deltec skimmer bodies have recently been shown to crack because they are cheaply made thin plastic. With cheaply made Chinese knock off DC pumps. Sold for premium prices.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/deltec-skimmers-seem-very-cheaply-made.343664/

Much like the cheaply made wet sides for ecotech pumps that rust. Who also charge a premium.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...when-it-comes-to-ecotech.334468/#post-4161452

These are just lazy examples from cursory searches.

Where are the pictures of rusted or cracked RO Elite skimmers? Or BK? Nyos? All premium brands, but with no examples of poor quality. Just as counter examples, by no means are any of these examples exhaustive.

Hope you have good luck with your approach, you may need it.

So two people with packaging issues reported problems and that makes them junk? Little over dramatic (like the rest of your posts in this thread) maybe? Did you also read about the two members that left Bubble King for Deltec in the same thread?

There is no direct alternative to Vortech power heads. I'm certainly not sold on my MP40s (with the exception of the controllers that are fantastic) but with nothing on the market that is designed in the same fashion, they have carved out a niche market with no competition and many people are willing to support it.

Life is pretty good over here; lighten up Francis...
 
For many of us, it’s the research and time spent reading and being an informed consumer that makes this hobby interesting. I mean, we all are making different choices, but trying to achieve the same result. All of us a some point suffer from GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It difficult not to want the best gadgets we can afford because it’s cool! Take a picture of just a reef though and you have no idea what’s running it and chances are your surprised at how humble the equipment is that’s actually keeping it going. The only point is that it’s thriving. Many are old school, some are new school. The only thing I have to compare this hobby to is photography. Outrageous prices for gear there as well, but, at the end of the day, no one really cares what camera, lens, or settings you used, just how good the shot was. Now you can run a reef without bells and whistles, but how valuable is your time? You can get a great picture with a cheap camera, but how valuable is your time? Is $600 for a pump too much. Yup. But people are feeding their families from our pump purchases. There are solid companies it’s seems that are bringing it back to normal. Like Avast Marine, for example. I hear there making stuff in the USA that just works and you can call them and talk to them. It’s tough for the little guy making products in our industry. It’s a vicious circle: company makes product, gives it to youtuber, youtuber gets ad revenue for liking the product and showing it works, we buy the product because we want reefs like them...I think distributors like BRS are the ones we need to support and really vote for. They are keeping these companies accountable by doing actual long term tests to see if their claims hold up to their marketing hype. And then asking us to comment about what “features” we would like to see. The key for me isn’t driving the price back down, it’s keeping the quality where the price is going by forcing companies to listen to consumers. Within the next 10 years I think we’ll the first “smart tank” a tank run totally from automation. Some people want that ULM tank. More time enjoying, less time cleaning. Some enjoy the process of the effort more than just sitting back. But your right, there’s a poor mans way or reefing and a rich mans way and the gap between them seems to be widening, with little to no middle ground.

I have no problem with high-end gear, but the quality has to match the price, like you said, which it doesn't. We're often used as beta testers, forced to return different parts of a product until you get a fully functional unit. It's like nobody tests these things anymore and are just concerned with putting out yearly dribble.

I mean if you think about it, there's only really 4 or 5 companies running all of the gear in the industry. CaribSea alone accounts for almost half the brands around.
 
Are you comparing the non controllable sicces to Vortech? The controllable ones are $100 cheaper than an mp40 and have less flow.

As far as quality, I’ve never had any issue with my mp40s in three years. I’ve even dropped the motors several times. The price has been the same on my pumps for over three years as well. My friend had a motor die on his out of warranty mp40 and they replaced it at no cost.

No, I was comparing the ac, non-controllable Sicce. The controllable one just came out.
 
I had a thread earlier this year asking if people thought Jeabo was junk. I had several responses saying they would never use Chinese crap. So when you buy a Vertex pump for 5 times as much as a Jeabo (with a one year warranty) and it fails 18 months later, what does the company tell you. POUND SAND!

I have a Jeabo pump running my UV sterilizer. I still won't use a DC on my main return. That is reserved for a 2 big bulky Eheim AC pumps (which in comparison to the DC pumps) that are affordable

Where are you getting one year? If you purchase it off amazon it’s 30 days. It took a hurricane, fire, and an electrical short to distroy my water blasters. The maintenance on them was minimal. Now the DC pumps have a float switch, a failsafe if nothing gets stuck, slow start, and consume less power. After 45 days the Jaebo I had set up temporarily was the loudest thing on my tank. I could feel how warm it was and it raised my tanks temperature by at least a degree.

Are you comparing the non controllable sicces to Vortech? The controllable ones are $100 cheaper than an mp40 and have less flow.

As far as quality, I’ve never had any issue with my mp40s in three years. I’ve even dropped the motors several times. The price has been the same on my pumps for over three years as well. My friend had a motor die on his out of warranty mp40 and they replaced it at no cost.

Although your warrenty is over they will Work with you on any service. I’ve sent in all of my pumps and had them upgraded to Quiet Drives. I also dropped and broke my MP60. They fixed it and shipped it back for me 40 bucks. Every experience was with a well spoken support agent who did the repairs themselves. (Just like Carlos at Reef Octopus). I wasn’t supporting a Chinese Firm with an Indian call center.

Sometimes expensive gear is garbage. Even Ecotech recalled the LR1. Its up to you to research and buy the best piece of equipment for your needs. Buying junk leaves people disappointed and likely leaving the hobby.
 
Bought my Porsche and my Lexus used as well. There is GREAT value in going used.

Same for corals, all of them used.

Very few cars have somewhat decent resale. Low mileage STIs from 04 like mine also do well. I’ll never buy a new car again!
 
Very few cars have somewhat decent resale. Low mileage STIs from 04 like mine also do well. I’ll never buy a new car again!

Very little upside to buying new. I’ve yet to hear someone give me a bang up reason to buy new.
 
I think you're missing the point, as usual. Do you really think an Ecotech MP-60 is really worth over $600 for a powerhead? NO! And if you go look at some reviews on BRS, I believe it's around a 3 star rating.

I think a lot of people end up buying certain brands because LFS's push it on people because of the markup, people on forums say this is the best brand, or other people just want to say they have a high dollar piece of gear.

I will never vouche for a Jebao anything. I think overall they are crap as a brand. But I think middle of the road products are just as good, if not better, than some high-end brands.

I have these products to back up my claims. I have MP-40's and they are on par with the Sicce Xtreme pumps. Though you can buy 3 Sicce's for 1 MP-40. The Sicce is smaller and can be angled. The MP-40 is static with a dc pump that's external.

I have two Maxspect XF-250 Gyres and I have an Icecap Gyre. Not much of a difference in performance (a little, not much) except the Maxspect can do 2 gyres, yet the price is substantially different.

The Reef Octopus VarioS return pumps are a much better bang for your buck than an Ecotech Vectra.

I've given in to the thought process that the more money you throw at it, the better it should be. But that simply isn't the case. Haven't you noticed prices keep dramatically climbing with little to no improvements? Most skimmers use the same Sicce pumps and similar bodies, yet there's a few hundred dollar differences in price because of the name on the package.

I'm not talking global economics here. I'm talking strictly our hobby.

But you keep spending away on those products that just tells manufacturers we're as big of suckers as they think.

First, You don't know what I spend on equipment or what equipment I buy. Second, I never said that just because a product costs more that it was 'better'. Third, Some people buy things on 'aesthetics' or 'how they look'. Look at some of the people that have colored plumbing, matching everything in their sump, etc. That is also 'not necessary' and is a lot more expensive than silicone tubing - its personal preference. Some people buy Apple, some buy Samsung. Some people like to have a certain look - and they pay for it. A lot of it is marketing.

Every corporation could be considered guilty of 'corporate greed' - including the Chinese firms. Since every corporation wants to make the most money they can.
 
Bought my Porsche and my Lexus used as well. There is GREAT value in going used.

Same for corals, all of them used.

For cars, as long as the mileage is low enough to your liking (among other things), you get 10x's more bang for your buck going used. Bought my BMW with 60,000 miles from a friend who basically almost gave it to me, and my Infiniti with 26,000 miles from a con artist dealer. My favorite car by a long shot though.

Buying a used car doesn't always pan out. You don't always know how it was maintained, same as used aquarium gear.
 
For cars, as long as the mileage is low enough to your liking (among other things), you get 10x's more bang for your buck going used. Bought my BMW with 60,000 miles from a friend who basically almost gave it to me, and my Infiniti with 26,000 miles from a con artist dealer. My favorite car by a long shot though.

Buying a used car doesn't always pan out. You don't always know how it was maintained, same as used aquarium gear.

I buy CPO cars. They cost more, but come with a warranty still and a promise of a certain level of quality.

When the Porsche dealer was taking my Boxster through the CPO process, they were required to do its basic maintenance as well as spark plugs and brake fluid flush ($$$). That was $1600 in maintenance that I got done as part of the deal.
 
I buy CPO cars. They cost more, but come with a warranty still and a promise of a certain level of quality.

When the Porsche dealer was taking my Boxster through the CPO process, they were required to do its basic maintenance as well as spark plugs and brake fluid flush ($$$). That was $1600 in maintenance that I got done as part of the deal.

You see the new 2017 Porshe 911 GT2 RS? OMG!!! The Nissan GT-R has always been my dream car, because I'm into sport coupes also, but I think that new Porche might have knocked it down a peg. Way out of my price range, but oh so gorgeous.
 
You see the new 2017 Porshe 911 GT2 RS? OMG!!! The Nissan GT-R has always been my dream car, because I'm into sport coupes also, but I think that new Porche might have knocked it down a peg. Way out of my price range, but oh so gorgeous.

Oh yea, it’s nice. Porsche, IMO, makes the classiest looking sports car around. Lambo and the like look too much like they are going to come to life and try to kill me. Just too much going on with their designs, for me anyways.
 
I wish Porsches weren’t so overpriced. I really want one, so they should be cheaper!

If only there wasn’t a free market where people actually do vote with their wallets without even realizing it!

I was talking about specific aquarium gear that is supposed to be premium, but isn't. Don't be a wise-@zz and try to make this into global economics.
 
I was talking about specific aquarium gear that is supposed to be premium, but isn't. Don't be a wise-@zz and try to make this into global economics.

You think a 911 GT3 is the most reliable car on the street? I'm not TRYING to make this into a global economics debate, it already is one... whether you want to admit it or not. Some of these high end aquarium companies haven't been in business this long because they overcharge for garbage.
 
Jebao power heads... the new SW pumps are super small and two SW4s in my 35g cube pushes 2000gph. I have $90 in both pumps. Screw Maxspect and Ecotech. There is no way their plastic crap is worth that much more than chinese plastic crap.
 
Just a quick question, how many of these lights, or pumps, or skimmers did you buy this month? How many did you buy last, nor next? How many do you think go out every day? If these were big sellers, Wal-Mart would have it. You gotta pay people and you gotta research the next big thing.
Those $35 Coral Life T-5 bulbs at Petco in College Station, Texas? They stock 2. Those sit there for a while too. Except when you want to buy them. Then the other guy gets there first.
(Playing Devil's Advocate)
 
Just buy what you want and do what you want to do. I have equipment from companies like Tunze That have been running for over 20 years and I can still get parts if needed. Try that with cheap china made equipment. I buy quality well made equipment that last. I am lucky that I attend MACNA every year and can see this equipment in person and being a Maintenance man for 40 years I can spot junk a mile a way.:) I spend my OWN money on all my equipment so I am extremely picky. One must watch if you see a high profile person in the hobby using a piece of equipment they may have gotten a deal.
 
Jebao power heads... the new SW pumps are super small and two SW4s in my 35g cube pushes 2000gph. I have $90 in both pumps. Screw Maxspect and Ecotech. There is no way their plastic crap is worth that much more than chinese plastic crap.

That’s a totally fine approach as long as you are willing to have a spare around. You have voted with your wallet!
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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