What’s next from Apex? (After Trident)

[Terence]

So...how do we go about tagging Neptune on this thread?

Most of us are hobbyists so we are fairly aware of just about all threads that relate to the Apex. We don't always chime in, but we do keep an eye on things and certainly read threads like this and use this information to help steer our direction. I don't want this to get into a back and forth Q&A on this topic right now, but just keep in mind that our over all market is not that large, certainly when you take into account the level of technology we bring to this market segment so most things we do have to be considered very carefully to understand how widely they will apply, and of course, the ROI. Resources are never unlimited. We are listening though, so keep the thread going!

 

[djbetterly]

I may have missed this some where, but having a TDS meter and reminder when it’s time to change filters would be nice as well. Seems like an easy addition if you ask me.

And please, take price into consideration, most of the items in this hobby are very over priced. I understand that R&D costs add up and that you need to make a buck or two, but man...it’s expensive to have a small piece of the ocean in your house.

 

[Mrx7899]

Most of us are hobbyists so we are fairly aware of just about all threads that relate to the Apex. We don't always chime in, but we do keep an eye on things and certainly read threads like this and use this information to help steer our direction. I don't want this to get into a back and forth Q&A on this topic right now, but just keep in mind that our over all market is not that large, certainly when you take into account the level of technology we bring to this market segment so most things we do have to be considered very carefully to understand how widely they will apply, and of course, the ROI. Resources are never unlimited. We are listening though, so keep the thread going!

What are the chances of a apex frozen food feeder [emoji2]

 

[Terence]

And please, take price into consideration, most of the items in this hobby are very over priced. I understand that R&D costs add up and that you need to make a buck or two, but man...it’s expensive to have a small piece of the ocean in your house.

It's an expensive hobby for sure. The Apex though has never been cheaper for what you get. I just uncovered some old marketing materials on the original AquaController from 1997. $300 and all you got was the base unit for that with three buttons and a 4x24 LCD screen. AquaNotes cost extra. Probes cost extra. And then the outlets were controlled with X10...also extra. The new ApexEL is still a lot of money for many people at $500, no doubt, but that's a ton of tech for $500 with zero ongoing service costs.

 

[ca1ore]

I’m sorry, but I FIND THIS LAUGHABLE. The system cannot measure salinity reliably, Ph is not accurate at all, well kinda but I end up checking behind it with a Hanna, the only thing thst I can trust is the tempurature probe, it tracks pretty much with an outside sensor. ORP has no meaning at all. Sometimes up, sometimes down.

I Have checked for stray voltages, made sure the probes are seperated, not totally immersed, that they are clean, calibrated and still there is no consistency

And now they have a way of doing the rest of this reliably ? I wish they would fix the basics.

When I check the tank from someplace else it sure would be nice to reliably know that the salinity stayed, the ph has not wandered off, ORP has not crashed and the tempurature is not making fish stew. But that is not possable

So call me grumpy or cursed by the gods but....

I mostly agree with this. The KEY, in my view, is to understand it's limitations and not ask it to do foolish things. Salinity, pH and ORP are all used on my system to trigger alerts - I do not use them to control anything. BTW, that ORP is essentially useless is not the fault of the apex. Unless you were/are running ozone, ORP has always been practically useless. I agree that the temperature probes work quite well, but even for that I use a ranco as well as apex for redundancy.

 

[ca1ore]

It is true, by the way, that if you look at the cost of technology (particularly in inflation adjusted constant dollars) it is cheaper today that it has ever been. There are exceptions, of course, particularly with products in the early years or their life cycles (flat panel TVs for example), but most are cheaper.

 

[beboyle]

I would like to see more control of the dos. Like to be able to dose on certain days of the week. The ability to reverse lines after dosing. I think there is alot more they could do with it.

You can do that. I only DOS M-F by adding a DOW rule to the Configuration. And you can run a pump forward or backward at different times - just use select Add or Remove on the Interval schedule.

 

[rygh]

My wishlist:

1) Better salinity probe
Mine is just very unreliable. Yes, I calibrate and clean it.

2) SELECTABLE battery backup
Meaning, keep the basic electronics running, and then select which outputs remain on during a blackout.
I do want a few pumps, but I do not want my heater.
Should be programmable. With basic electronics up, you can turn off some relays and not others.

3) Retain hard wired ethernet as an option.
I have had enough of flaky wireless connections.

 

[Mark Gray]

I have 2 Neptune Apex systems one is small one is getting fairly large, Had 2 Dos systems 4 FMM a couple are a long way away to control RODI, 1 ASM and 2 Cor's.

Wish list I would like to see a powered Hub not and EB832 just a small hub to link this stuff, maybe I can use a normal USB hub not sure so I won't until I am sure

 

[swk]

To me, probes for nutrients are about as useless as it gets. I’d be much more interested in something that could save my tank like an ammonia probe or something like the seneye can do

 

[EuroDriver]

I think you are asking for waaaay too much from a car battery. I’d be happy with a module that would let me specify which things turn on during a power outage. I’ve never seen a DC heater and honestly, you’d loose a lot in the DC to AC conversion to run it. Right now my tank runs for 48hrs with no power and all I keep running is an MP10. Most things are going to make it without the heater for a good amount of time. Apex heart beat tells you when power is out so i don’t see the need for cellular.

I keep a marine deep cycle car battery and a power inverter with a power strip next to my garage door. Did an excellent job of keeping the basics running on my tank along with a floor lamp in my living room during a couple (rare) power outages in the past.

 

[Javier Leon]

With su much automatizatión, I think we will all loose the risk to have a tank, we all put everything at a risk 24/7 . Even machines and computers make mistakes. I have the latest Apex and I will like like someone mentioned more and better probes to test Nitrate and other parameters, and better yet will love them that we don’t need to recalibrate never after the first calibration. But that will be it no more because I love testing , I love changing water or making waters , the only thing that I hate is gluing Corals to the rocks I always make a mess or they fall after couple days. Let’s keep this in a way that has modern stuff but also natural stuff for ya to do otherwise a think we will not look at the tank ever if everything is automatically. I love to seat and watch my tank like am doing now writing this.

 

[Velcro]

How about an accurate and precise conductivity probe?

 

[User1]

It's an expensive hobby for sure. The Apex though has never been cheaper for what you get. I just uncovered some old marketing materials on the original AquaController from 1997. $300 and all you got was the base unit for that with three buttons and a 4x24 LCD screen. AquaNotes cost extra. Probes cost extra. And then the outlets were controlled with X10...also extra. The new ApexEL is still a lot of money for many people at $500, no doubt, but that's a ton of tech for $500 with zero ongoing service costs.

I had one of those. And it frustrated me that reef notes was extra(minor grip I guess). So...I just used the data logger and excel It was built like a tank - my young GSD at the time thought it was a chew toy...still worked great although although the LCD started to get wonky on me. My fault for leaving it on the ground one time after doing something.

In any case one thing that is annoying, not with your product, but products overall in our hobby is that everyone wants to include their own controller. Return pump here, wave pump there, dosing pump there, they all have some form of dongle, do hickey, black box or other phone app. If everyone would just get along and have a common standard for interchange, API, bridge, or such like a tv/stereo remote we would all be better off. I mean seriously - this is getting out of control.​

 

[GK3]

Nitrate & phosphate testing...which corresponds to being able to control/dose parameters through Apex.

Maybe notification reminders for when it's time to change bulbs/etc.

Log to keep track of when fish are purchased, equipment added, etc.

The log feature is available. Just add it to the calendar.

 

[bobyboy]

Diy chilled feeder

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/268468-diy-chilled-automatic-liquid-micro-food-feeder/

 

[GK3]

It is often finicky to calibrate, tends to accumulate air bubbles which can dramatically throw off the reading, and the cable is highly susceptible to interference from other cables and cords running alongside it back to the controller. That said, I'm personally ok with the design, it works well enough if you know its limitations. Would probably want something better with the Apex Mil Spec, though.

I am fine with my salinity probe for what it costs. There is no way to measure sodium chloride molecules in water aside from a mass spectrometer. The apex salinity probe is therefore measuring conductivity. There are lots of things you can put in water to make it more conductive, salt just happens to be what is in our aquariums. So it’s never going to be flawless, but my experience with the apex probe is pretty good. I agree calibration is tough, but it can be done. Air bubbles: every probe is susceptible to this. Yes even temperature if the bubbles accumulate right. There are a lot of people that have complained about this in this thread, but I don’t see it as that big of an issue. I really think most people would be happy if calibration was done properly (as stated i don’t use apex cal fluid) and measures are taken to avoid noise in the lines. I don’t let any of my probe lines run by power lines.

just my two cents.

 

[GK3]

Nitrate & phosphate testing...which corresponds to being able to control/dose parameters through Apex.

Maybe notification reminders for when it's time to change bulbs/etc.

Log to keep track of when fish are purchased, equipment added, etc.

You can also set notifications.

 

[Sleepydoc]

I think the natural next product for them is a light. I just can't see why they wouldn't. They certainly have the engineers on staff to develop it.

That would be a logical next product, but I'm not sure it would make sense. The lighting market is already pretty crowded and I'm not sure how much added value Neptune could add with their own branded light.

I'd like to be able to put comments into Fusion code, and the I'd like the ability to put some demarcation lines on the dashboard screen.

This! If you go on the Neptune support forum, there's a thread for suggestions and this has to be the single most requested feature. There are a lot of improvements they can make to the programming and interface.

... just keep in mind that our over all market is not that large, certainly when you take into account the level of technology we bring to this market segment so most things we do have to be considered very carefully to understand how widely they will apply, and of course, the ROI.

This is very true. It's hard to keep in mind on a site like this, but R&D costs are significant and the market for new devices is not huge. When people complain about how expensive equipment is they need to keep in mind that development costs are spread over a fairly small market. And if you bring a defective product to market, the costs are even higher. Neptune had an issue with faulty SD memory cards with some of the first Apex 2016 models and they took a beating for it. Vertex tried to release a half-developed cerebra only to take it back to the drawing board and their reputation has taken a big hit.

 

[GK3]

Most of us are hobbyists so we are fairly aware of just about all threads that relate to the Apex. We don't always chime in, but we do keep an eye on things and certainly read threads like this and use this information to help steer our direction. I don't want this to get into a back and forth Q&A on this topic right now, but just keep in mind that our over all market is not that large, certainly when you take into account the level of technology we bring to this market segment so most things we do have to be considered very carefully to understand how widely they will apply, and of course, the ROI. Resources are never unlimited. We are listening though, so keep the thread going!

Totally get it. Like i said in a previous post, this is a hobby. It’s not like cellphones/TVs/PCs where the market is endless. Totally understand the fact that R&D has to be focused and the ROI is the key thing for you guys. This is kind of why I created the thread to see what everyone thought should be the next product.

So that being said - after trident, what’s next in your all’s pipeline? [emoji6]