What causes polyp bailout besides parameter swings?

[vetteguy53081]

the problem with this assessment is that we can see other corals are doing well. It’s the Euphylia that are not - and they are generally pretty tolerant. This is why I think it makes sense to say it’s not parameter related. Also the speed with the which it happens - usually parameters are a slower decline (except light - that can be fast)

I suspect some sort of spike which WOULD be parameter related.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have ATI T-5/LED hybrid. Below are my PAR reading, but I just rented a PAR meter again so I could double check these are all still accurate.

Not sure what test kits you are using but assure you are in range:

Temp 77-79
ph 8.1-8.3
salinity 1.025
nitrate < .5
phos < .04
Ammonia < .03
mG 1300
Alk 8-10
CA 440

 

[New&no clue]

What was the last thing you added to your tank?

I went back through my build thread. It looks like the last thing I added was at the start of September; I added a watchman goby and a clown goby from TSM. The last time I added corals was at the end of August. Also, I do regularly add pods to my tank from my LFS.

 

[New&no clue]

Not sure what test kits you are using but assure you are in range:

Temp 77-79
ph 8.1-8.3
salinity 1.025
nitrate < .5
phos < .04
Ammonia < .03
mG 1300
Alk 8-10
CA 440

I use Hanna and Salifert as back up. I also just got an ICP test which is has very similar results to my home test.

 

[Stang67]

This is a really long shot.... did you get all of the affected Eufi's from the same supplier/shop?

 

[New&no clue]

This is a really long shot.... did you get all of the affected Eufi's from the same supplier/shop?

No, multiple vendors, and a couple local reefers.

 

[Evo R]

Please post your icp results so that we can see what's going on in your tank.
And nowhere can see you mention any form of magnesium testing??

LPS need Mg of at least 1300 ppm. And low Mg readings affect your corals ability to absorb and use calcium and alk in the nearby water Colom. Loads of videos from BRS and Reef Builders on youtube covering this very same issue!!

So i would look at testing and if needed correct your low or out of balance Mg reading slowly over a couple of days to prevent violent Param swings.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had get ready earlier for a business trip
One thing that just clicked in my mind-
Do you by chance have leathers in your tank? If so, they do emit toxins which have effects on LPS and SPS coral
Using a product like chemiPure blue will reduce/eliminate this effect and keep phos/nitrate in check

 

[New&no clue]

Please post your icp results so that we can see what's going on in your tank.
And nowhere can see you mention any form of magnesium testing??

LPS need Mg of at least 1300 ppm. And low Mg readings affect your corals ability to absorb and use calcium and alk in the nearby water Colom. Loads of videos from BRS and Reef Builders on youtube covering this very same issue!!

So i would look at testing and if needed correct your low or out of balance Mg reading slowly over a couple of days to prevent violent Param swings.

Maybe it is too high of Mag? It is typically 1400-1430.

Here are my ICP results.

 

[New&no clue]

I had get ready earlier for a business trip
One thing that just clicked in my mind-
Do you by chance have leathers in your tank? If so, they do emit toxins which have effects on LPS and SPS coral
Using a product like chemiPure blue will reduce/eliminate this effect and keep phos/nitrate in check

Yes, I have an island full of them. I have a BRS reactor with Carbon in it running full time. The sofites are on one end of the tank, and the most affected euphyllias are on the other end. I have been worried that the Carbon could be stripping too much out of the water, causing issues. Actually thinking about it, I do have one toadstool relatively close to all the affected corals.

Circles are the corals that bailed, arrows are the softies.

 

[Pistondog]

I'd consider removing the leathers, you are right about the toxins. I believe they'll reduce growth of other corals long term.
You might also consider trying to bulk up bacteria after cipro treatment by dosing mb7 or your favorite. This enhanced Biota may help combat bjd.
Keep the flow low on euphyllia to minimize any mechanical damage, which will contribute to bjd.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes, I have an island full of them. I have a BRS reactor with Carbon in it running full time. The sofites are on one end of the tank, and the most affected euphyllias are on the other end. I have been worried that the Carbon could be stripping too much out of the water, causing issues. Actually thinking about it, I do have one toadstool relatively close to all the affected corals.

Circles are the corals that bailed, arrows are the softies.

That may do it. Carbon ok but is pourous and may revert toxins back to tank and depletes quicker than chemipure blue or elite .
Does not mean carbon is not acceptable

 

[New&no clue]

That's a bummer. I would hate to pull my soft corals as that got me into the hobby. I think I will try adding some more filtration, such as chemipure. I also rented a PAR meter from BRS just to verify the lighting is not the issue. I guess if these things don't make a difference, then I may have to make some hard choices and pick between softies and euphyllia

 

[Cjeippert]

I also have a mixed reef peninsula and it is obvious that the direct constant flow from the mp40s tore polyps up off skeleton on walling hammers, acan lords, and a torch over the past year and a half. I could tell the flow was too much, but hard to keep acros and euphyllia in same tank for me…. Hindsight should have got 2 smaller tanks. One sps and one lps so they could both thrive. Moving the softies around as needed to shade from too much light and too much flow. This will keep the polyps from tearing all the way off and floating around.

 

[Hermie]

Platygyra stinging my Caulastrea (Candy cane) caused the Candy cane to bailout at least one head (that survived but disappeared eventually).

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I noticed in your picture, all of those LPS that you listed, are right in the direct path of your MP40 flow. I would lower them to near the sand bed and get them out of direct flow.

 

[Icryhard]

Im reading above and it could be this or could be that- This is not a guessing matter as there is an issue going on.
So, what causes the flesh to leave the skeleton - STRESS !
What stress are we referring to:
- alkalinity being too high or too low (ideal 8 – 11 dKH)
-pH being too high or too low (ideally 7.8 – 8.3)
- Temperature being too high or too low (ideally 77-79 degrees)
- Calcium/Magnesium being out of balance or being too high or too low (ideally calcium should be 3 times less than magnesium levels. Calcium should be between 420 – 450ppm, magnesium 1300ppm)
- Phosphate being too high or too low (ideally between 0 – 0.2ppm)
- Having zero Nitrates or Nitrates above 12ppm
- Too much or too little flow directed at the coral, direct flow towards coral, not at it

If your water parameters fall outside of these ranges, or you have big swings/unstable parameters it is likely that your corals will become stressed.

I have pretty much everything you said, my calcium being 450 (tipping the high end) and my magnesium being around 1485 (I've read torches like higher end magnesium?). My nitrates do test around 20 +/- with salifert test kit. I honestly don't know about the flow since some people seem to blast their torches and say "this is good" and some barely and they say "this is good". My phosphates are steady 0,07-0,09 (does not go below 0,07 or higher than 0,09). Yet for some reason all of them seem to sooner or later die. My KH (when it drops to 8) I add some baking soda to amp it back up to around 8.6 -> 4 grams of baking soda does this for me.

I have not measured my PAR, but all my torches are at the bottom of my tank. I have a blue tang and a tomini, could these maybe cause stress when feeding time comes by, due to them causing a massive flow when the swim by? Maybe a bold question, but would you be comfortable to show me your flow or show me your flow schedule for your wavemakers?

 

[Icryhard]

I had get ready earlier for a business trip
One thing that just clicked in my mind-
Do you by chance have leathers in your tank? If so, they do emit toxins which have effects on LPS and SPS coral
Using a product like chemiPure blue will reduce/eliminate this effect and keep phos/nitrate in check

I do have 4 leather corals, but these aren't anywhere near my LPS... why would they release such toxin and do they do it without a direct threat around?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have pretty much everything you said, my calcium being 450 (tipping the high end) and my magnesium being around 1485 (I've read torches like higher end magnesium?). My nitrates do test around 20 +/- with salifert test kit. I honestly don't know about the flow since some people seem to blast their torches and say "this is good" and some barely and they say "this is good". My phosphates are steady 0,07-0,09 (does not go below 0,07 or higher than 0,09). Yet for some reason all of them seem to sooner or later die. My KH (when it drops to 8) I add some baking soda to amp it back up to around 8.6 -> 4 grams of baking soda does this for me.

I have not measured my PAR, but all my torches are at the bottom of my tank. I have a blue tang and a tomini, could these maybe cause stress when feeding time comes by, due to them causing a massive flow when the swim by? Maybe a bold question, but would you be comfortable to show me your flow or show me your flow schedule for your wavemakers?

One of these days, im going to get it down pat for video attachments on here.
With flow, you dont want them bending over the skeleton. You want flow that is similar to leaves blowing in the wind effect. In lieu of baking soda in the future, I have great luck with soda ash in raising alk and maintaining level.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do have 4 leather corals, but these aren't anywhere near my LPS... why would they release such toxin and do they do it without a direct threat around?

Yes- They can release rterpenes which will upset this type of coral. Running Chemipure blue will alleviate the toxins if they are causing issues.