What do I do with this ?? tang illness?

[Eienna]

Read the articles....

Proper feeding is all well and good, BUT it simply helps the fish develop an immunity. Yours are so badly infected that there is no time for them to do that. You could well lose all of them if you don't do something about it NOW, and those articles will help you choose the best course of action.

 

[IAMC]

Thank you for the link. I got a chance to read it through and was very informative. After reading it I decided to take tge following actions:

1. Set up my currently acquired 10 gallon with filter floss from refugium and water from DT along with a heater set to 81 degrees.
2. Transfer the following fishes over to the 10 gallon:
-2 hi fin gobies, 2 helfrichi gobies, 2 cleaner wrasse (1 may be dead as of this morning), and 1 dwarf angel.
Note: Yellow tang and Scopas Tang is expected to be sold today.
3. Hyposalinity is the chosen method. Reduce the salinity to 1.009 with 24 -48 hr period using a refractometer and gravity fed ato. Hyposalinity period of 3 weeks.
4. Raise salinity back to normal slowly of .001-.002 per day.

Question: I have a special order of tank raised clowns coming at an unknown date. I will leave them in a biocube 14 for the time period. Will transferring rocks from DT to BC14 also transfer ich?

Question: Does the gobies need hypo treatment as well?

Question: I forgot but how long does the DT need to remain fishless?

Question: Any corrections need to be made with the provided above plans?

 

[Dademadebullies]

Copper meds will do good to treat ich and also a uv light will be good try raising your ph up a notch with good garlic seaweed as well try not to feed too much brine mysis is fine hope that helps.

 

[shells4]

You want to leave your fish in hypo longer than 3 weeks. It won't hurt them, the most important thing when you do increase your salinity to do it slowly. check your salinity level everyday and do not let it swing. Your tank should be empty for at least 6-8 weeks, so your not in a hurry. Good luck. I did this and have QT everything that goes in my tank since and never had a problem since. I QT rock, corals, and inverts---just not worth taking a chance to me. This hobby is about slow and steady.

 

[Eienna]

Yes, moving rocks would easily transport ich as well.

Keep ALL the fish in hypo for five or more weeks. This will starve the parasites in the DT to death so you can return the fish to it without reinfecting them. It may take as long as six and a half weeks to completely eradicate the ich.

 

[IAMC]

Yes, moving rocks would easily transport ich as well.

Keep ALL the fish in hypo for five or more weeks. This will starve the parasites in the DT to death so you can return the fish to it without reinfecting them. It may take as long as six and a half weeks to completely eradicate the ich.

Even if I rinse the, say 5-7 lbs, DT LR in a bucket of fresh saltwater? Does ich cling onto the rocks as well?

 

[pickupman66]

IAMC.. Ive have been in your shoes... with my 180 and my tangs. I introduced a fish that I didnt QT and it brought in ich. What I did was drop the entire DT down to 1.009 and left it there for 4 full weeks. you can drop it to that in about 48 hours time frame. its the way up that will hurt them.

Leave it there for 4 weeks. AT LEAST. feed and keep up on water changes and water quality. you will have to pull all inverts first. put them in a QT on their own. then drop your tank to 1.009.

Hypo is the best way IMO to battle a full tank infestation with no corals. the reason for 4 weeks worth is the parasite is only vulnerable when it is in a certain phase. otherwise it is encapsulated and the low salinity wont kill it. you have to keep your tank low for the full lifecycle. the lowe salinity offers a lower osmotic pressure and the tomite literally explodes.

once done, bring it back up .003 / day.


I did this and ALL fish made a complete recovery.

 

[pickupman66]

Even if I rinse the, say 5-7 lbs, DT LR in a bucket of fresh saltwater? Does ich cling onto the rocks as well?

yes, and you will kill what bacteria you have in the water too.

 

[Palting]

Even if I rinse the, say 5-7 lbs, DT LR in a bucket of fresh saltwater? Does ich cling onto the rocks as well?

Ich can exist on rock, substrate and tank walls as cysts. That's why you have to leave the DT fishless for 6 weeks or more. The cysts will survive within the cysts, but die when they go through their life cycle and hatch but cannot find a fish host. So, even if you rinse your rocks in fresh saltwater, there can be Ich in the crevices and the pores of the rock. If you use fresh water, that's a different thing. You'll have to soak the rocks so that the freshwater can get to all the crevices and pores, and you'll kill all the marine bacteria and critters in there. Not sure you would want to dothat.

 

[IAMC]

Ich can exist on rock, substrate and tank walls as cysts. That's why you have to leave the DT fishless for 6 weeks or more. The cysts will survive within the cysts, but die when they go through their life cycle and hatch but cannot find a fish host. So, even if you rinse your rocks in fresh saltwater, there can be Ich in the crevices and the pores of the rock. If you use fresh water, that's a different thing. You'll have to soak the rocks so that the freshwater can get to all the crevices and pores, and you'll kill all the marine bacteria and critters in there. Not sure you would want to dothat.

Thanks for the clear answer.

 

[IAMC]

IAMC.. Ive have been in your shoes... with my 180 and my tangs. I introduced a fish that I didnt QT and it brought in ich. What I did was drop the entire DT down to 1.009 and left it there for 4 full weeks. you can drop it to that in about 48 hours time frame. its the way up that will hurt them.

Leave it there for 4 weeks. AT LEAST. feed and keep up on water changes and water quality. you will have to pull all inverts first. put them in a QT on their own. then drop your tank to 1.009.

Hypo is the best way IMO to battle a full tank infestation with no corals. the reason for 4 weeks worth is the parasite is only vulnerable when it is in a certain phase. otherwise it is encapsulated and the low salinity wont kill it. you have to keep your tank low for the full lifecycle. the lowe salinity offers a lower osmotic pressure and the tomite literally explodes.

once done, bring it back up .003 / day.


I did this and ALL fish made a complete recovery.

Great info on your experience and answered my other questions as well. I want to go hypo in the DT with the removal of inverts. But I have the followjng questions:

Did you have an ammonia spike? I did a search on "Does hyposalinity kill bacteria" and ended more confused because of constant debates and no agreeable answer. If ammonia was present, how often did you have to do water changes?

Was PH an issue during hypo treatment? If I expect to have PH issues how do I go about fixing it?

Any other tips? These info will give me an idea on what to expect and be more prepared.

Does clowns from ORA need to be treated? After I perform the DT hypo I will treat ALL new fishes period. Lesson learned.

 

[pickupman66]

No bacteria die off and not ammonia issues. Ph was fine. I didn't have to do water change ges.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Eienna]

If you don't reduce it below 1.018 (VERY rough estimate) I don't think you'll have bacteria issues.

If the clowns were coming straight from ORA, it would still be a good idea to QT them, but they may not have to be prophylactically treated for ich. If they've gone through a retail establishment first, I would treat before adding them to the DT.

 

[Palting]

Great info on your experience and answered my other questions as well. I want to go hypo in the DT with the removal of inverts. But I have the followjng questions:

Did you have an ammonia spike? I did a search on "Does hyposalinity kill bacteria" and ended more confused because of constant debates and no agreeable answer. If ammonia was present, how often did you have to do water changes?

Was PH an issue during hypo treatment? If I expect to have PH issues how do I go about fixing it?

Any other tips? These info will give me an idea on what to expect and be more prepared.

Does clowns from ORA need to be treated? After I perform the DT hypo I will treat ALL new fishes period. Lesson learned.

I converted a 110 gallon DT into a QT/HT for 11 fish by removing most of the rock and all the inverts, then doing hyposalinity. It worked, but I would not recommend it. Let me tell you how I did it, and why I would not recommend it even if it worked for me.

Here's a photo of the QT/HT after conversion from being a DT:

It's serviced by a mature wet/dry biofilter with bioballs and a Fluval 405 cannister with ceramic discs that were also mature, both for biological filtration. So, a few thigs I want to point out and answer your questions.
1. At 1.009 salinity, the beneficial bacteria will survive and carry on the breakdown of ammonia and nitrites.
2. At 1.009 salinity, all the other critters, like brittle stars and worms and what-not, that exist in the substrate and rocks you leave behind WILL die. Lucky for me, the wet/dry and the cannister filters handled the sudden die off and I did not get an ammonia spike. However, I did get the mother of all nitrate spikes. I cleaned all the mechanical filters and suctioned the substrate when this happened, and I got a ton of dead pods, amphipods, worms, stars, etc, etc. The fish did not mind the nitrate spike, but water change and cleaning everything got it under control.
3. The pH came down to 7.8, and stayed there. I kept some soda bicarb (baking soda) handy, just in case, but never used it.
4. The QT/HT has to be completely separate from the new DT. Avoid going from the DT to the QT/HT, but if unavoidable, make sure to trinse everything well in between, including your hands, to avoid cross contamination.

So, that's it. I kept the 1.009 salinity stable for 4 weeks, then 2 weeks to get it back up to 1.026. In the meantime, the new DT, a 150, that contained most of my rock and all the coral stayed fallow for 8 weeks. Although it worked, if I were to ever do it again, I would have removed ALL the rocks and ALL the substrate from the converted QT/HT as well, to avoid that nitrate spike.

 

[IAMC]

I converted a 110 gallon DT into a QT/HT for 11 fish by removing most of the rock and all the inverts, then doing hyposalinity. It worked, but I would not recommend it. Let me tell you how I did it, and why I would not recommend it even if it worked for me.

Here's a photo of the QT/HT after conversion from being a DT:

It's serviced by a mature wet/dry biofilter with bioballs and a Fluval 405 cannister with ceramic discs that were also mature, both for biological filtration. So, a few thigs I want to point out and answer your questions.
1. At 1.009 salinity, the beneficial bacteria will survive and carry on the breakdown of ammonia and nitrites.
2. At 1.009 salinity, all the other critters, like brittle stars and worms and what-not, that exist in the substrate and rocks you leave behind WILL die. Lucky for me, the wet/dry and the cannister filters handled the sudden die off and I did not get an ammonia spike. However, I did get the mother of all nitrate spikes. I cleaned all the mechanical filters and suctioned the substrate when this happened, and I got a ton of dead pods, amphipods, worms, stars, etc, etc. The fish did not mind the nitrate spike, but water change and cleaning everything got it under control.
3. The pH came down to 7.8, and stayed there. I kept some soda bicarb (baking soda) handy, just in case, but never used it.
4. The QT/HT has to be completely separate from the new DT. Avoid going from the DT to the QT/HT, but if unavoidable, make sure to trinse everything well in between, including your hands, to avoid cross contamination.

So, that's it. I kept the 1.009 salinity stable for 4 weeks, then 2 weeks to get it back up to 1.026. In the meantime, the new DT, a 150, that contained most of my rock and all the coral stayed fallow for 8 weeks. Although it worked, if I were to ever do it again, I would have removed ALL the rocks and ALL the substrate from the converted QT/HT as well, to avoid that nitrate spike.

The only problem, it seems, was the nitrates that bothers you? In my case, I don't have critters except Asternia Stars. Still good to go?

 

[Palting]

The only problem, it seems, was the nitrates that bothers you? In my case, I don't have critters except Asternia Stars. Still good to go?

Don't be fooled by what you can see. How old is your tank? If your tank is over 3 months old, there may be a lot you cannot see, like brittle stars and Copepods, even amphipods hiding in the porous rock and substrate. You can risk it if you must, but be ready for die-off just in case.

 

[Palting]

One more thing. I had mature wet/dry bioballs, the best ammonia reducing biofiltration, bar none (not good for nitrates, but that's another issue). If you do not have a similarly efficient biofilter, you may get a dangerous ammonia spike from die-off, not just a benign nitrate spike.