What is happening with my frogspawn corals? Help

[wsqreef]

Tank Specs:
- IM lagoon 25 w upgraded return pump
- Kessil a360x @ 65%
- mp-10
- ice cap skimmer
- filter floss and chemipure blue
- fuge with cheato
Parameters:
Alk - 9.3
calc - 460
PH - 7.9-8.0
salinity - 35 ppt
Nitrates - less than 5 ppm

So I have had this tank set up for about 2 years or so. I have bought 2 different frogspawn corals for it and they both have followed about roughly the same path. One of them I bought as my first coral, it was small and 1 head. Another I bought was quite large probably 6-8 months ago or so with 4 heads. They start off very happy and look normal for 3-4 months but then the heads get very small and they start to grow very long and thin skeletons with these tiny heads on them. I've never seen anything like this and am a n00b when it comes to reefing for sure. I attached some pictures of my first buying them and where they are now. let me know your opinions!

4 heads at first purchase:

8 weird skinny boiz:

Overall Tank Shot:

Overall I feel like my corals are happy but the frogspawns are very weird, you can see the 3 head one being weird in this pic too. The montipora had nudibrachs eating it which is why there is a hole in the middle. Its growing back tho. The hole is half the size it was.

Thanks for reading, let me know what you think!

 

[shwareefer]

Too much flow and/or too much light. Move it to somewhere less intense in both regards and see what happens.

 

[sp1187]

@fishguy242
@DiefsReef
@Lost in the Sauce

 

[wsqreef]

The larger of the two is in the lowest flow area of the tank and lower on the rock/off to the side so not much light either, is 65% intensity too much for my tank do you think? Also I just5 kind of noticed that my trumpet/candy cane coral (name?) is doing the same thing lol. Started with two heads that were bigger and is now many but much smaller.

 

[outhouse]

Lights to much intensity

 

[wsqreef]

Okay anyone have a recommendation of what intensity it should be set at percentage wise? And also how quickly should i ramp it down. I assume changing it to something like 40-50 percent all at once would be a bad idea

 

[muzikalmatt]

The little tiny buds on the stalks are just new heads forming which is a good sign that the coral is growing well. However, the larger polyps being closed up could be any number of things including too much light, too much flow, or maybe something is bothering them. Does your clownfish try to host the frogspawn?

 

[wsqreef]

The little tiny buds on the stalks are just new heads forming which is a good sign that the coral is growing well. However, the larger polyps being closed up could be any number of things including too much light, too much flow, or maybe something is bothering them. Does your clownfish try to host the frogspawn?

Nope they dont. The heads have been like this for months. The one with three heads has been over a year like this all the while the heads are actively splitting as if they are happy? It makes no sense to me, why are the growing but growing so small? Every new head that formed was after they were this weird shriveled mess lol

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

lower my nitrates get, three worse my euphyllia look. Anytime I break under 20, They look like they're dying.

Could we get this picture also with white lights? Under the blues it's impossible to see the tissue health.

There's an incredible amount of new heads growing down there.

 

[fishguy242]

hi,possibly too much flow ,larger heads not opening.
but i would not change too much too fast, that frog has excellent tissue,and popping babies like crazy...

 

[wsqreef]

lower my nitrates get, three worse my euphyllia look. Anytime I break under 20, They look like they're dying.

Could we get this picture also with white lights? Under the blues it's impossible to see the tissue health.

There's an incredible amount of new heads growing down there.

Sure, here are some pictures in white light. Yeah I mean there are a lot of new branches that start but none seem to go anywhere unless they normally grow incredibly slowly. I took two pictures and in one you can see a head that has just recently split and is going to again. No idea why they are becoming smaller and smaller. Do you think the light is too intense as well? I also find it odd that this isn't happening to my torches, they seem open and 'full' so to speak

 

[muzikalmatt]

Wow the tissue under the main heads looks really healthy and there are sooo many baby heads sprouting!

However, under the white lighting it kind of looks like the center of some of the heads are showing signs of bleaching. You can see the deeper colors in the tentacles of the polyp on the outside of the heads. That's usually a sign of over-lighting but it's hard to believe they're being over-lit given your light setup and settings. However, it could just be a product of somewhat high lighting and low nutrients.

Other than lighting I suspect too much flow could be the culprit. Could you maybe post a video so we can see what kind of flow it is in?

 

[wsqreef]

yeah absoluetly. It was pretty low flow but there is definitely some from the water bouncing off the glass from the mp-10. Here you all go! Appreciate the help and would really like to get to the bottom of this

 

[muzikalmatt]

Ok, that looks like perfect flow for a frogspawn, definitely not too much. So for me I would guess it is too high lighting and too low nutrients.

For lighting you can either move it down to the sand bed or to a shadier spot of the tank. If all of the other corals in your tank are happy, I would not advise decreasing your lighting intensity for one coral that's unhappy.

For raising your nitrates, you could feed heavier, dial back your filtration (reduce fuge lighting period, turn off skimmer for a little while, etc.) or even dose nitrates. Whatever you do, do it slowly to prevent a spike.

That's my best guess, but I'm sure other more experienced reefers will weigh in as well.

 

[Red_Beard]

One thing to check would be your nutrient levels, i have noticed mine do something similar when stuff bottoms out. make sure you have some N & P for those dudes. I know it is generally thought of as high, but mine runs around .1 P and 30-40 N. Stuff is puffy and happy under plenty of light and flow.

The quickest way to see if it is flow that is making them recede, as that is definitely another potential cause, is to turn your pumps down for a day or 2. The biggest indication to me that something is up with my flow is when everything puffs up even more. I have come home a time or 2 to all my larger polyp stuff being 1.5 times bigger and found a snail had bound up my wavemaker.

 

[outhouse]

Okay anyone have a recommendation of what intensity it should be set at percentage wise? And also how quickly should i ramp it down. I assume changing it to something like 40-50 percent all at once would be a bad idea

Quickly turning them down hurts nothing. Like a cloudy day. I would try 20% blue. And 3% white. And watch for a week at progress.

 

[wsqreef]

One thing to check would be your nutrient levels, i have noticed mine do something similar when stuff bottoms out. make sure you have some N & P for those dudes. I know it is generally thought of as high, but mine runs around .1 P and 30-40 N. Stuff is puffy and happy under plenty of light and flow.

The quickest way to see if it is flow that is making them recede, as that is definitely another potential cause, is to turn your pumps down for a day or 2. The biggest indication to me that something is up with my flow is when everything puffs up even more. I have come home a time or 2 to all my larger polyp stuff being 1.5 times bigger and found a snail had bound up my wavemaker.

Yeah I have little to none so that could be the problem but I get cyano whenever I have even a little which is incredibly annoying to deal with. Might just let these guys do whatever they are gonna do as I don't want to disturb the other corals too much. I could turn the lights down a bit, not sure

 

[wsqreef]

Quickly turning them down hurts nothing. Like a cloudy day. I would try 20% blue. And 3% white. And watch for a week at progress.

Im a little confused. My light has settings of intensity and color. 0-100 for intensity and 0-100 for color (0 is most blue). Im currently set at 65 intensity and 15 blue.

 

[Red_Beard]

When you have cyano what is your phosphate to nitrate ratio? Usually cyano shows up when there is some of one and not the other, can't remember which. If you dose both the cyano bloom should clear quickly ~few weeks, when you are up around .01 and 5 p-n.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This has nothing to do with light peak but rather Ramping down. These coral are photosynthetic and therefore respond to UV strength and increase/reduction in lighting. One of the more important requirements for frogspawn is Placement. It is an overlooked item that contributes to the overall acclimation and sustainability of your frogspawn. Some hobbyists simply choose to put it where is looks best but to reduce the amount of strain on your piece.
Although capable of doing quite well in a relatively large range of lighting levels, ideally, your Frogspawn Corals do best when provided a moderate amount of lighting, with many hobbyists finding success with an added bit, or partial, shading. Euphyllia (theyre a member of this group) do not enjoy direct high lighting. Keep in mind that the amount of lighting and the degree of water flow work hand-in-hand in sustaining healthy coral life and growth. Although technically capable of survival, Frogspawn DO NOT appreciate high or even moderately high flow. They will open much bigger in gentle flow, and will be able to grow into those beautiful serene tendrils that you see swaying within your habitat. (see my pic below- this was a size of a quarter a year ago and now 6"x4")
I cannot overemphasize the incredible importance of both lighting as well as placement. Never, ever haphazardly place your corals, select your lighting, or randomly pair different specimens or species within a tank, and just hope for the best. Remember, like any coral, Frogspawn Coral requires a very specific amount of lighting, and in this case, it’s not a whole lot. Unlike many other corals, Frogspawn Corals don’t require a whole lot of lighting. They are also 100 PAR, but even levels as low as 50 PAR will work well for this beautiful species.
Frogspawn are not the most aggressive eaters. Broadcast feeding is typically the easiest, most effective approach. Additionally, if there is too great a flow, or if there are fish in your habitat that are aggressively harassing them, they’re just not going to eat. Even if they are able to successfully get the food into their mouths, they often quickly spit it back out--quick enough where they may not even be digesting any of the food