What is wrong with my powder brown?

[thm1121]

Anyone have any idea what is wrong with my powder brown tang? He looks terrible… not sure what to treat him with or what to do. He’s in a QT right now with low level copper and rally but he looks worse today. Here is a picture of what he currently looks like

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Anyone have any idea what is wrong with my powder brown tang? He looks terrible… not sure what to treat him with or what to do. He’s in a QT right now with low level copper and rally but he looks worse today. Here is a picture of what he currently looks like

May have gotten him into quarantine just in time!!! ICH!!!

 

[redfishbluefish]

@Jay Hemdal has been tagged to offer help.

 

[thm1121]

May have gotten him into quarantine just in time!!! ICH!!!

 

[thm1121]

Well that’s what he went into the QT for but that was like 12 days ago he was better then got worse. I have no idea what the “things” are off the side of him? Does ich look like things coming out of their skin? Maybe the video will help?

 

[thm1121]

@Jay Hemdal has been tagged to offer help.

Any thoughts on what this might be? He went into QT about 12 days ago and he is getting worse??

 

[piranhaman00]

Looks like peeling skin no? Why low level copper? Definetly not ich, if it’s Protozoa it’s velvet but looks bacterial to me.

I would do 90%+ water change and treat with abx with large air stone, turn off light.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Just in case let's include #fishmedic .....don't know when Jay would see this.

The fishmedics are the site's fish disease experts....let's hope they can help as well as other R2R members.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This fish is ich ridden and will need immediate treatment. Best defense is use of coppersafe in a quarantine setting for a full 30 days at therapeutic levels 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees and levels monitored by a reliable copper test kit (no api brand) and leaving display fishless for 45-60 days
Other fish if any likely infected

 

[vetteguy53081]

Your video is infected and jusy wiped out my computer temporary files.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks like peeling skin no? Why low level copper? Definetly not ich, if it’s Protozoa it’s velvet but looks bacterial to me.

I would do 90%+ water change and treat with abx with large air stone, turn off light.

Skin not peeling but there are many mucus spores on the fish from parasites.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

There is certainly a protozoan involved here. The mucus plugs trailing from the fish are a result of some skin irritation, most likely from ich trophonts. The fish is breathing fairly fast, not fast enough to likely be an Amyloodinium co-infection, but could just be due to advanced ich infection. The rapid breathing could also be from low oxygen or some water quality problem - if you have good aeration and have tested the water, then you can rule that out.

Never use low dose copper - it is "go all in or go home" with that drug. If you use, say a 50% dose of copper, you don't get 50% benefit, you get 0% benefit.

Skip the Rally at this point.
What copper are you using?

If Copper Power or Coppersafe, you should dose right up to 2.50 ppm tonight.
If you are running Cupramine, then the full dose is 0.50 ppm
If you are using ionic copper/citric acid, you need to get to 0.20 ppm today.

Please understand that this may not save the fish - copper products take up to 3 days to effect a cure and this fish may not have that long. Still, that is the course of action I would take.

Jay

 

[thm1121]

Looks like peeling skin no? Why low level copper? Definetly not ich, if it’s Protozoa it’s velvet but looks bacterial to me.

I would do 90%+ water change and treat with abx with large air stone, turn off light.

I don’t know that I’d call it peeling skin but I honestly have no idea what those things are. We were told by our LFS that tangs don’t do well in high copper more than a week at a time. His suggestion was to do lower copper level and add rally thinking it was like a secondary infection so that’s what we did yesterday. 50% water change checked copper was at 1.31 and Rally was put in the water. Would you treat water with antibiotic or just PB? What antibiotic do you suggest? Do you think a freshwater dip would hurt him? I will take any and all advice

 

[thm1121]

There is certainly a protozoan involved here. The mucus plugs trailing from the fish are a result of some skin irritation, most likely from ich trophonts. The fish is breathing fairly fast, not fast enough to likely be an Amyloodinium co-infection, but could just be due to advanced ich infection. The rapid breathing could also be from low oxygen or some water quality problem - if you have good aeration and have tested the water, then you can rule that out.

Never use low dose copper - it is "go all in or go home" with that drug. If you use, say a 50% dose of copper, you don't get 50% benefit, you get 0% benefit.

Skip the Rally at this point.
What copper are you using?

If Copper Power or Coppersafe, you should dose right up to 2.50 ppm tonight.
If you are running Cupramine, then the full dose is 0.50 ppm
If you are using ionic copper/citric acid, you need to get to 0.20 ppm today.

Please understand that this may not save the fish - copper products take up to 3 days to effect a cure and this fish may not have that long. Still, that is the course of action I would take.

Jay

 

[EugeneVan]

This fish is ich ridden and will need immediate treatment. Best defense is use of coppersafe in a quarantine setting for a full 30 days at therapeutic levels 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees and levels monitored by a reliable copper test kit (no api brand) and leaving display fishless for 45-60 days
Other fish if any likely infected

I will add metroplex with coppersafe for 3 weeks dosing too.

 

[thm1121]

Thank you. Yes we were using copper power and dosed one milliliter for a 20 gallon QT which puts it at 2.50. Would you suggest a fresh water dip or just do the big water change and re add the copper?

 

[EugeneVan]

I don’t know that I’d call it peeling skin but I honestly have no idea what those things are. We were told by our LFS that tangs don’t do well in high copper more than a week at a time. His suggestion was to do lower copper level and add rally thinking it was like a secondary infection so that’s what we did yesterday. 50% water change checked copper was at 1.31 and Rally was put in the water. Would you treat water with antibiotic or just PB? What antibiotic do you suggest? Do you think a freshwater dip would hurt him? I will take any and all advice

I am sorry for your fish. I have used Copper Power at 2.5ppm with Metroplex for four weeks in the past with my Power Blue, Power Brown, Hippo and Keyhole tangs during QT. They have no issue with the Copper Power at 2.5 ppm. The trick is slowly bring up the copper leverl to 2.5. Start he copper level at 1 and bring it up to 2.5 in 2 to 3 days. I truthly hope your power brown make it.

 

[thm1121]

I am sorry for your fish. I have used Copper Power at 2.5ppm with Metroplex for four weeks in the past with my Power Blue, Power Brown, Hippo and Keyhole tangs during QT. They have no issue with the Copper Power at 2.5 ppm. The trick is slowly bring up the copper leverl to 2.5. Start he copper level at 1 and bring it up to 2.5 in 2 to 3 days. I truthly hope your power brown make it.

 

[thm1121]

We did a 50% water change yesterday and took a sample to LFS was told copper level was 1.31 and told to add rally. I guess I’ll drain the QT down to less than 10% and start over adding copper power not sure how to dose to get it to 1 in a 20 gallon QT. We started it out 12 days ago with full strength 2.50 but he started to look worse…

 

[Jmcg89]

I use tank transfer method for my QT, there is a method that can treat ich and velvet now, Google ttm for ich and velvet. Somthing to consider also if you're worried about the copper etc.