What kind of pump do I need?

[MysterioMask]

For the last month or 2 I have been working on building a saltwater fish tank setup that will be placed in my false fireplace. The water will go to a sump in the basement and circulate back up. Given that there isn't much room in the fireplace anymore though I need a safe way to pull water down to the sump rather than a hang on back siphon since I don't want to attempt to drill the tank itself. The best way I can think of right now that will give me the least amount of headaches In the long run is a pump in the basement that pulls water from the tank down into my filter then sump.

My question is , is there a better way to do this? Also what is the name of this kind of pump that pulls water rather than sits inside water.

 

[Joey waid]

You need to push water up and let gravity pull it out.

 

[MysterioMask]

You need to push water up and let gravity pull it out.

I understand that would be the normal way but the way I have stuff set up if the power goes out there will be a huge flood when it comes back on and I'm not around.

Or something that is mechanical that's in the basement that would restart the siphon when power kicks back on.

 

[Joey waid]

If you pump water to the basement it still has to come back up to the tank , it has to make a circle. If you pump down and back up both pumps have to be at the same speed, if not something is going to overflow. If you use one pump in the basement and pump up and let gravity take it back down, the system works at one speed and less likely to overflow. I have never heard of a pump in pump out scenario.

 

[Joey waid]

I understand that would be the normal way but the way I have stuff set up if the power goes out there will be a huge flood when it comes back on and I'm not around.

Or something that is mechanical that's in the basement that would restart the siphon when power kicks back on.

Syphons don't work to go up, they work to pull down, hence gravity. If you pump down how does the water get back up? I don't get the flood part either? If you set it up right there should be no water anywhere when power goes on or off.

 

[SteveSTL]

Take the tank to a glass shop and have them drill it. It is absolutely impossible to balance 2 pumps for any extended period of time.

 

[MysterioMask]

Syphons don't work to go up, they work to pull down, hence gravity. If you pump down how does the water get back up? I don't get the flood part either? If you set it up right there should be no water anywhere when power goes on or off.

Currently there are 2 tubes, one going to the pump to bring water up, and 1 going down for gravity to bring it to the filter / back to the sump. The issue is that the way its set up I cant have it so the water level levels out when theres a power outage and starts the siphon going again once the power is back on like a normal hang on back siphon would work. Also if there was any issue with the hang on back siphon it would be hard to fix given that theres not much space for me to do much since its inside the fireplace itself.

So currently. If the power was to go out the siphon would suck all the water out from where the weir is and get filled with air because the end point of the siphon is below in the basement. If the power was to return and I was away or sleeping it would kick the pump on and fill up the weir but given that the siphon is now no longer siphoning it would just fill up the tank with the rest of the water from the sump thus overflowing all over the living room.

What I believe I need is something that will keep the siphon working once power is resumed, or some kind of electrical siphon starter or something that will kick on again once power is resumed.

As for drilling a hole I would like that to be a last option at the moment as I do not need the tank to break, or another thing that might go wrong or leak in the future. Also it would void the warranty.

I can provide photos or diagrams if what I'm saying does not make much sense.

 

[MaiReef]

One that has not been invented... kidding. If you really don't want to drill, hang on backs work fine with an aqua lifter or other small pump to start for a minute, in case the siphon doesn't start.

 

[MysterioMask]

One that has not been invented... kidding. If you really don't want to drill, hang on backs work fine with an aqua lifter or other small pump to start for a minute, in case the siphon doesn't start.

I'm including a few photos to show what I'm working with here. Normally a hang on back siphon would work fine but given the small amount of space I have, I believe it would be more difficult to have one for me in case it needs cleaned or taken care of or whatever. My setup isn't completely done yet but once its full of water and stuff pulling it out of the fireplace will be difficult if I have to get in behind it.

Would an aqua lifter work to start the siphon when its in the basement? How would that work exactly?

 

[MaiReef]

Yes a small pump in the tank will start a siphon, however if you cannot get to it, I wouldn't see any system be safe. Drilling looks like the best option, but I wouldn't even do that if you can't get to it.

 

[dragon99]

It sounds like you should keep everything in the tank rather than try to pump into the basement. Sumps are great, but aren't a requirement.

If an overflow box won't fit (and it doesn't appear to be much room in the back), and drilling the tank if out of the question (best option), then using an in tank skimmer/filter/heater/etc is the way to go.

 

[MysterioMask]

Yes a small pump in the tank will start a siphon, however if you cannot get to it, I wouldn't see any system be safe. Drilling looks like the best option, but I wouldn't even do that if you can't get to it.

How would that work, exactly. Is it just another submersible pump that is put into the tank itself? or is there a way to have a pump in the basement pull water down or start the siphon back up at least?

Also its not that I cant get to it, it would just be difficult to get to if I have a hang on back.

 

[Scooby]

Anything is posible...
1. Is your main tank fish, reef, or both?
2. What kind of space we talking about in your basement.
3. $$$ what's your budget?

 

[MysterioMask]

Anything is posible...
1. Is your main tank fish, reef, or both?
2. What kind of space we talking about in your basement.
3. $$$ what's your budget?

I'm looking for a fish with live rock setup for the main tank
Plenty of space in the basement, already cemented a flat area for the tank and built a trickle filter system up.
Budget isn't that big of an issue I just don't want to have to tear the house apart or start doing things that are crazy expensive. That's why I was just wondering about a way to start a siphon back up again.

 

[Scooby]

Here's the solution, but in my opinion I would plan ahead and get started on replacing that tank with something more functional. You are limiting yourself with that tank.

 

[Scooby]

There's more to be added for safety, but I would imagine you know what your doing and take full responsibility when putting it together [emoji846]

 

[MaiReef]

A pump at the start of the tank would work. However, the siphon would go through the pump. I have done it and it works. Once the pump is off the siphon continues.

 

[MysterioMask]

A pump at the start of the tank would work. However, the siphon would go through the pump. I have done it and it works. Once the pump is off the siphon continues.

Okay. Makes Sense. My next question would be is there a pump or device that will start a siphon again once power kicks back on that can be placed in the basement? Alternatively, is there some sort of device that detects a power outage and will turn a device on for only a minute or 2 before shutting it off, that way the pump doesn't constantly run inside the tank?

I was thinking about just having a battery backup system for a power outage that will keep everything running during a power outage, but I have used them for computers in the past where I work and they were never all that reliable.

 

[Joey waid]

I have two tanks with hob overflows, they are working good for me. You can use them o drain to the basement and them pump it back up.

 

[MysterioMask]

I have two tanks with hob overflows, they are working good for me. You can use them o drain to the basement and them pump it back up.

Normally that would be fine, but given where its being set up if something does go wrong it will be hard to fix once the whole tank is filled with water. Unless theres a way to ensure there wont be an issue later.