What to do about a massive Ich breakout?

[DHouse]

I have 125G tank with a 40g sump. I moved a Blue (Hippo) Tang to my quarantine tank due to an Ich breakout. That was three days ago. Now several fish in the big tank have Ich and my Purple Tang is covered. It almost looks like Velvet on the Purple Tang. Do I need to add Cupramine to the entire tank? My quarantine is not big enough to house all of the fish. There are no inverts in that tank except for a few crabs and snails which I'll take out and do a fresh water dip on them. Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[DHouse]

Purple Tang covered! Does this look more like Velvet? Other fish in the tank definitely have Ich! This includes a One Spot Foxface, a Heniochus, 3 Clowns, a Black/White Chromis. The only one that doesn’t have anything yet is my Queen Angel!

 

[littlefoxx]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

Purple Tang covered! Does this look more like Velvet? Other fish in the tank definitely have Ich! This includes a One Spot Foxface, a Heniochus, 3 Clowns, a Black/White Chromis. The only one that doesn’t have anything yet is my Queen Angel!

Please repost these pics under white light intensity only

This is what we see

 

[DHouse]

Please repost these pics under white light intensity only

This is what we see

How about now?

 

[vetteguy53081]

How about now?

Ouch - heavy case of velvet. When did this begin?
As the disease progresses from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body as with your fish. The fine consistency suggests this is velvet. Although these cysts appears as tiny white dots often the first sign of ich, what sets velvet apart from other types of ich is that the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film given the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and place them into a QT with added aeration. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. While many remedies contain the name as ich treatment, assure it targets Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapeutic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days with added aeration monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand).

 

[DHouse]

Ouch - heavy case of velvet. When did this begin?
As the disease progresses from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body as with your fish. The fine consistency suggests this is velvet. Although these cysts appears as tiny white dots often the first sign of ich, what sets velvet apart from other types of ich is that the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film given the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and place them into a QT with added aeration. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. While many remedies contain the name as ich treatment, assure it targets Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapeutic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days with added aeration monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand).

The only problem with that is my quarantine tank has a hippo tang with Ich! Did not look like velvet! The other fish in my display tank have Ich and probably by now, velvet as well! Would it not be more feasible to treat the entire tank! All of the inverts have been removed!

 

[DHouse]

The only problem with that is my quarantine tank has a hippo tang with Ich! Did not look like velvet! The other fish in my display tank have Ich and probably by now, velvet as well! Would it not be more feasible to treat the entire tank! All of the inverts have been removed!

Oh and the velvet appeared over night! It had a few spots yesterday and this morning it was covered!

 

[DHouse]

The only problem with that is my quarantine tank has a hippo tang with Ich! Did not look like velvet! The other fish in my display tank have Ich and probably by now, velvet as well! Would it not be more feasible to treat the entire tank! All of the inverts have been removed!

 

[vetteguy53081]

The only problem with that is my quarantine tank has a hippo tang with Ich! Did not look like velvet! The other fish in my display tank have Ich and probably by now, velvet as well! Would it not be more feasible to treat the entire tank! All of the inverts have been removed!

Ich looks similar and does not turn into velvet. Velvet however starts out fine and increases in mass. Ive never seen a fish get this overnite and was likely there at least 48-72 hours before becoming more visible.
Some things you would have seen and not realized are:
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish lethargic
- Loss of appetite and even weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

 

[DHouse]

Oh and the velvet appeared over night! It had a few spots yesterday and this morning it was covered!

Ich looks similar and does not turn into velvet. Velvet however starts out fine and increases in mass. Ive never seen a fish get this overnite and was likely there at least 48-72 hours before becoming more visible.
Some things you would have seen and not realized are:
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish lethargic
- Loss of appetite and even weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

There was nothing like that. Today it is not eating. Yesterday it was eating like normal. Some of the other fish were doing the gravel diving and the Hippo Tang was doing that and that's when I moved it into quarantine on Sunday. I noticed the Purple Tang had a few spots on it's fins and a couple on it's side. Same with the Foxface and Chromis and Clowns. This morning when the lights came on , the purple tang was covered. That's why I think that I need to dose the whole tank. What are your thoughts on using Cupramine which does eradicate Oodinium as well as four other parasites including Ichthyophthirius?

 

[vetteguy53081]

There was nothing like that. Today it is not eating. Yesterday it was eating like normal. Some of the other fish were doing the gravel diving and the Hippo Tang was doing that and that's when I moved it into quarantine on Sunday. I noticed the Purple Tang had a few spots on it's fins and a couple on it's side. Same with the Foxface and Chromis and Clowns. This morning when the lights came on , the purple tang was covered. That's why I think that I need to dose the whole tank. What are your thoughts on using Cupramine which does eradicate Oodinium as well as four other parasites including Ichthyophthirius?

Coppersafe is safer. Cupramine is ionic and more potent and MUST not exceed .55
I would utilize a separate tank opposed to display tank

 

[TubesFab]

You can pull the crabs out but it's going to kill all the pods and other microinverts/organisms. Put them in a different tank even if it's a 50g trash can setup. The copper will turn the silicone blue.

Id also order a UV sterilizer for the tank. You can them pretty inexpensive from Amazon $100 for 55w. Definitely will significantly help in the future.

 

[DHouse]

Coppersafe is safer. Cupramine is ionic and more potent and MUST not exceed .55
I would utilize a separate tank opposed to display tank

I definitely appreciate your input. I have Cupramine and I think that if I wait until I can get some Coppersafe, it might be too late. I don't have another quarantine tank and the other fish have Ich or Velvet and I can't move them all. I will start at half of a dose. Instead of 14ml I'll dose 7ml and then test to check the level then on Friday I'll dose the 2nd dose with the full 14ml. I do thank you for your wisdom.

 

[DHouse]

You can pull the crabs out but it's going to kill all the pods and other microinverts/organisms. Put them in a different tank even if it's a 50g trash can setup. The copper will turn the silicone blue.

Id also order a UV sterilizer for the tank. You can them pretty inexpensive from Amazon $100 for 55w. Definitely will significantly help in the future.

I don't have enough salt water mix for a 50g or even a 30g. It'll take all night to make that much with RODI and I'm afraid by that time, it might be too late. Cupramine is not supposed to harm beneficial bacteria. It may inhibit the growth of new bacteria. My LFS owner says every time he has a breakout in one of his tanks, he doses it with cuprmine and has never had a problem.

I did order a UV for this tank and for my reef tank. Just waiting on them to arrive. Thanks!

 

[TubesFab]

I don't have enough salt water mix for a 50g or even a 30g. It'll take all night to make that much with RODI and I'm afraid by that time, it might be too late. Cupramine is not supposed to harm beneficial bacteria. It may inhibit the growth of new bacteria. My LFS owner says every time he has a breakout in one of his tanks, he doses it with cuprmine and has never had a problem.

I did order a UV for this tank and for my reef tank. Just waiting on them to arrive. Thanks!

You can also use distilled water

 

[vetteguy53081]

I don't have enough salt water mix for a 50g or even a 30g. It'll take all night to make that much with RODI and I'm afraid by that time, it might be too late. Cupramine is not supposed to harm beneficial bacteria. It may inhibit the growth of new bacteria. My LFS owner says every time he has a breakout in one of his tanks, he doses it with cuprmine and has never had a problem.

I did order a UV for this tank and for my reef tank. Just waiting on them to arrive. Thanks!

Not that cupramine is a problem, just a little more risky. Aim for treatment level .45. add aeration and monitor ammonia level. In an emergency, use tap water to set up quarantine along with dechlorinator

 

[DHouse]

Not that cupramine is a problem, just a little more risky. Aim for treatment level .45. add aeration and monitor ammonia level. In an emergency, use tap water to set up quarantine along with dechlorinator

I'm mixing up as much saltwater as I can now and tomorrow I'll get some that is already mixed from my LFS as well. I'm almost out of salt and will have to get more of that tomorrow. I'll test it for copper in the morning and will keep an eye on it to see if ammonia starts to spike. I have been doing this for a long time but I have never had a break out like this. This is a first for me. I had one other breakout and I used PolyLab Medic and it worked. It didn't work this time for my Hippo and that is when all hell broke loose. Again, I appreciate the wisdom that you give.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm mixing up as much saltwater as I can now and tomorrow I'll get some that is already mixed from my LFS as well. I'm almost out of salt and will have to get more of that tomorrow. I'll test it for copper in the morning and will keep an eye on it to see if ammonia starts to spike. I have been doing this for a long time but I have never had a break out like this. This is a first for me. I had one other breakout and I used PolyLab Medic and it worked. It didn't work this time for my Hippo and that is when all hell broke loose. Again, I appreciate the wisdom that you give.

Polyp lab is hit and miss and effective with early stage protozoan

 

[DHouse]

You can also use distilled water

I'll get some more distilled tomorrow. Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated.