Where am I going wrong with QT

[burtonboy182]

I’ve tried a couple times to QT my fish and for some reason it always ends with them passing.
I’ve read and reviewed all the stickies about QT.
Most recently I purchased 3 tangs. All were very small. (Powder blue, yellow and purple tang). I made sure all were eating swimming and looked great when I purchased them from my LFS.

I floated them and drip acclimated the fish
All equipment is brand new
20g tank
Aqua clear HOB filter with sponge from the filter and then a bag of matrix ontop. Also put 4 Marine pure spheres on the bottom of the tank which were seeded in my tank.
Saltwater was freshly mixed to 1.025 temp 77F
Small powder head pointer to top and causes surface agitation.
I also used a small bottle of instant ocean bio-Spira (good for 30 gallons)
Ammonia bagde
Heater
Thermometer
I offer them all types of food, PE mysis, brine shrimp pellets, flakes...
Top off once daily with RODI water.
Ambient room light
At this point no chemicals or medications were used

For some reason I keep losing all my fish.

What am I missing and where am I going wrong?
Thanks

 

[RevJames]

Nutrient levels? Don’t give up just study. If you have done all of the above it doesn’t make sense? Any signs of death? Disease etc? Maybe try a different LFS. May be bringing something home. I’ve had quite a QT battle myself lately. I do feel your pain.

 

[Cflip]

I’ve tried a couple times to QT my fish and for some reason it always ends with them passing.
I’ve read and reviewed all the stickies about QT.
Most recently I purchased 3 tangs. All were very small. (Powder blue, yellow and purple tang). I made sure all were eating swimming and looked great when I purchased them from my LFS.

I floated them and drip acclimated the fish
All equipment is brand new
20g tank
Aqua clear HOB filter with sponge from the filter and then a bag of matrix ontop. Also put 4 Marine pure spheres on the bottom of the tank which were seeded in my tank.
Saltwater was freshly mixed to 1.025 temp 77F
Small powder head pointer to top and causes surface agitation.
I also used a small bottle of instant ocean bio-Spira (good for 30 gallons)
Ammonia bagde
Heater
Thermometer
I offer them all types of food, PE mysis, brine shrimp pellets, flakes...
Top off once daily with RODI water.
Ambient room light
At this point no chemicals or medications were used

For some reason I keep losing all my fish.

What am I missing and where am I going wrong?
Thanks

Maybe it’s because you didn’t treat with copper. They died of whatever the LFS has perhaps velvet or ich. I always treat prophylactically.

 

[Cflip]

I’ve tried a couple times to QT my fish and for some reason it always ends with them passing.
I’ve read and reviewed all the stickies about QT.
Most recently I purchased 3 tangs. All were very small. (Powder blue, yellow and purple tang). I made sure all were eating swimming and looked great when I purchased them from my LFS.

I floated them and drip acclimated the fish
All equipment is brand new
20g tank
Aqua clear HOB filter with sponge from the filter and then a bag of matrix ontop. Also put 4 Marine pure spheres on the bottom of the tank which were seeded in my tank.
Saltwater was freshly mixed to 1.025 temp 77F
Small powder head pointer to top and causes surface agitation.
I also used a small bottle of instant ocean bio-Spira (good for 30 gallons)
Ammonia bagde
Heater
Thermometer
I offer them all types of food, PE mysis, brine shrimp pellets, flakes...
Top off once daily with RODI water.
Ambient room light
At this point no chemicals or medications were used

For some reason I keep losing all my fish.

What am I missing and where am I going wrong?
Thanks

I also get fish from LA or Divers Den. At least they give you a guarantee on the fish

 

[cmcoker]

Do 1 fish at a time until you are successful.

I have found doing a 10% water change every 3 days, for at least the first week or two, helped me have better success, even if ammonia badge is 0.

Watch the fish carefully, just sit and watch them swim around. And not just when feeding since they will not always display flashing, yawning, etc during feeding if they are eating well.

I use lights on the tank, a few velvet spots for instance, aren't terribly noticeable in ambient light. And I don't think the fish act normal.

Hope your next round is succesful!

 

[melypr1985]

I floated them and drip acclimated the fish

I suggest not drip acclimating them to the QT. Just match the salinity to what's in their bag, float for temp and then release. Or well, net them out and into the QT. It's much easier on them than the drip and no real concern of ammonia build up during the acclimation either.

At this point no chemicals or medications were used

as mentioned above, I would also suggest treating with copper at introduction. You'll take a few days to raise the levels up to therapeutic, but it's probably a good idea to hit the ground running with the copper. You just never know what parasites/disease the fish are bringing home from the LFS or how advanced it is.

 

[Oldsalt01]

Are u saying that u are using a 20g that HASN'T been cycled? If I read ur post correctly it sounds as if u are depending on transferred biomass (sponge, bottled bacteria, and seeded Marine spheres) to act as your bio filter, and then adding 3 fish? I personally don't use ammonia badges as I've had very unreliable readings from them. I'm suspecting an ammonia spike and tangs can be very, very sensitive to it. I would let the tank just run for a month, then QT one fish at a time.

 

[Big G]

I suggest not drip acclimating them to the QT. Just match the salinity to what's in their bag, float for temp and then release. Or well, net them out and into the QT. It's much easier on them than the drip and no real concern of ammonia build up during the acclimation either.


as mentioned above, I would also suggest treating with copper at introduction. You'll take a few days to raise the levels up to therapeutic, but it's probably a good idea to hit the ground running with the copper. You just never know what parasites/disease the fish are bringing home from the LFS or how advanced it is.

+1 ^^^ Some LFS and suppliers are keeping their fish at sub therapeutic levels of copper to suppress disease and keep the fish "looking" good because therapeutic copper washes out the colors and can make the fish appear lethargic. So you bring home the fish and for a few days they do great, but then the sub therapeutic copper levels drop and disease comes roaring back, often without the usual symptoms. So as @melypr1985 suggests, I usually start copper by the end of the third day of getting the fish to eat. And I dose the copper in small doses AM, lunch, PM to get up to minimum therapeutic levels as soon as possible. This works for me; your mileage may vary.

~ Gary

 

[rkpetersen]

Are u saying that u are using a 20g that HASN'T been cycled? If I read ur post correctly it sounds as if u are depending on transferred biomass (sponge, bottled bacteria, and seeded Marine spheres) to act as your bio filter, and then adding 3 fish? I personally don't use ammonia badges as I've had very unreliable readings from them. I'm suspecting an ammonia spike and tangs can be very, very sensitive to it. I would let the tank just run for a month, then QT one fish at a time.

This, or a nitrite spike, is almost certainly what happened, even if your ammonia badge showed nothing. 20g isn't that big, you don't have a huge margin of error, and a bottle of BioSpira will not kick start a complete cycle overnight, no matter what it says on the bottle. Other brands make similar claims, and they're all bogus imo. Once your QT has been housing a well-fed damsel for a week and still shows absolutely no trace of ammonia or nitrite on test kits, you're good to add other fish very slowly. And prophylactically use copper if you like. I personally think the stuff is the spawn of Satan, and prefer to go with GC to start followed by CP; fortunately I do not intend to add any more wrasses or anthias in the near future.

 

[4FordFamily]

... and a bottle of BioSpira will not kick start a complete cycle overnight, no matter what it says on the bottle. Other brands make similar claims, and they're all bogus.

I disagree with this. It doesn’t entirely replace proper cycling, without a doubt. It’s fantastic for kick staring it. I had tried dozens of these products before with zero luck, or no marginal gains. Dr Tims and BioSpira both work wonders, I use them on fresh QT tanks with great success frequently.

 

[HotRocks]

Also remember tangs. Super high metabolism. Eat poop pee. They generate a considerable amount of waste, in QT also can contribute to spikes in ammonia. Another reason I prefer to use Dr tims. It has helped me.

 

[rkpetersen]

I disagree with this. It doesn’t entirely replace proper cycling, without a doubt. It’s fantastic for kick staring it. I had tried dozens of these products before with zero luck, or no marginal gains. Dr Tims and BioSpira both work wonders, I use them on fresh QT tanks with great success frequently.

I recently tried both products, after hearing about their magical effects. Tried each product according to instructions, individually and then together. It's true, ammonia was suppressed, but nitrite still peaked hard. Even lost a damsel to it. The only way I've managed to get 'instant cycle' was by transferring a well-seasoned sponge filter over from the DT sump; this really was magically fast.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I suggest honing your qt skills and procedures with smaller batches of easier fish.

Best of luck

 

[Oldsalt01]

The only way I've managed to get 'instant cycle' was by transferring a well-seasoned sponge filter over from the DT sump; this really was magically fast.

It sounds like he's tried seeding with the spheres and it's not taking. I still believe he's trying to rush the process, and is compounding the issue by adding 3 Tangs at once. I suggest slowing down, getting the tank settled and totally cycled before adding fish. And Tangs would not be my first choice either. Another consideration I had tonight on this topic: cyanide is still used overseas to collect fish, even though it's been banned in many countries. The issue then becomes cyanide poisoned fish delivered to a supplier, then shipped to an LFS. They look fine upon arrival, but cyanide poisoning can take up to 3-4 weeks to kill a fish, and they don't always show any external symptoms other than a gradual loss of appetite and wasting away. I'm not suggesting this is the problem, but it is an unfortunate fact in the marine "industry".

 

[1WildBill]

You might try adding Prime to your QT, other than secluding 1 fish at a time your doing everything right from what I see.

 

[4FordFamily]

You might try adding Prime to your QT, other than secluding 1 fish at a time your doing everything right from what I see.

Note though, do NOT do this with medications, particularly copper. It will make the copper lethal.

 

[melypr1985]

It sounds like he's tried seeding with the spheres and it's not taking.

The problem with his method here, is that the spheres are not in the filter having water pass through them. To be effective, they need to be in a high flow area, not just resting on the bottom of the QT.

 

[Oldsalt01]

I don't know about that. My rock sits on the bottom and water flows around it, not through it and it works just fine as a biologic filter.

 

[DeniseAndy]

FME, you can set up a qt at any point for fish and do not need it to cycle. With a fish qt, you want very little in the tank. Just some stuff to hide around (i use pvc or fake coral thing I have laying around). I use HOB filters with just a sponge. As long as you are watching the ammonia and doing water changes every couple days, you are fine. I have a very good success rate in my qts. Only lost fishes that were very ill or in the beginning (15 yrs ago).

I do not treat unless needed. I do not drip acclimate unless I add prime to the bag of fish. I always get the qt to match the water temp and salinity and ph. If really off my normal, then I will get a bucket that matches the fish bag and then gradually bring it up to my qt tank.

My guess is the fish are in lower salinity or have meds running in the system they were in so the parasites or diseases took over once out of meds (lower salinity). Try one fish at a time. Watch them carefully. Do lots of water changes.

On a side note, my qt will adjust to type of fish I am qting, whether I need some sand, live rock, etc.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I work at the National Aquarium in Baltimore. We necropsy every single animal that dies in our care, including the ones that are in QT. I don't have any solid numbers on this, but it's very rare that a fish dies and there's not a reason. Usually for animals in QT, it's a parasite, internal infection or injury. Outwardly, the animals might look fine, so the death appears to be a "mystery," but not all marine ornamental fish maladies are visible to the naked eye or observation. There's always a "why" if you have sufficient equipment and expertise to prove it. Personally, I think this is one of the biggest reasons that more reefers don't QT. Reefers see fish die in QT and assume there's something wrong with the setup and that the fish would have survived in DT. Fish can survive for a really long time in really sub-par conditions. I don't recommend subjecting fish to bad conditions intentionally, but if a fish dies in QT, it's likely not because you quarantined, it's because there was something wrong with the fish.

My point is that there was likely something wrong with the fish before you got them home. Appearing to be healthy and eating are not guarantees that there's nothing wrong with the fish. If your ammonia badge wasn't registering, then there's nothing inherent to the QT that would have killed the fish. I would suggest buying fish somewhere else. It seems to me like you have the basics of QT down. I would bet there's something unhealthy about the fish at this store, even if they look like they're okay.