Which numbers to chase and how to reach them

[ryboy707]

So in another thread I started I got some advice from a few folks on not trying to chase zero with phosphates and nitrates. I have been panicking over my phosphate levels, I cannot get them below .08 no matter how many water changes I do, nopox dosing, gfo, and chaeto. I was told to relax and actually I should try to get my nitrates above my phosphate level. I was new to that so I dived into the forums and found that many people dose nitrates with spectracide stump remover. This morning I did another round of testing and found that my phosphates had jumped to .16. So I ran to Petco and grabbed some phosguard and stopped by lowes and grabbed some spectracide. I mixed 6 teaspoons with 2 cups of water and since I only have a 29 gal biocube I put 2 ml in the tank. An hour later I tested nitrates to find a nice .2 reading. I'm gonna wait until tomorrow to check phosphates and see how the phosguard is doing.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

my Po is .25 my sps is growing like crazy. dunno. chasing numbers. go figure.

 

[ryboy707]

.25?!?!? Really?!?!?!? I'm pretty new to the hobby, so please excuse my ignorance. I read some ppl say .1 but wow. I thought .25 would be total death sentence to sps. I know everybodys tank is different but are there any constants when it comes to nutrient control?

 

[KDirk]

For best overall coral growth .03 is a good place to be for po4

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

.25?!?!? Really?!?!?!? I'm pretty new to the hobby, so please excuse my ignorance. I read some ppl say .1 but wow. I thought .25 would be total death sentence to sps. I know everybodys tank is different but are there any constants when it comes to nutrient control?

its weird. My talbot damsel lost his mind and dug holes in my DSB. Skimmer slowed down dont know why. Fuge needs trimmed weekly or will clog.
Honestly not sure whats going on or why it works. I assume it was because it was a gradual thing over the month i was away and the natural process took over. But I do tell folks not to chase numbers. Thats why.
Track your numbers, watch for spikes, but look at health first.
Oddly all my problems happen the numbers were good. I went to 3 LFS one day and tested myself. All tests good. and stuff was dying.

Honestly a correctly sized skimmer, no chem unless you need it and a refugium. seems like nature had a better plan than anyone else in my case.

and seriously, sump remover in a fish tank. a dead shrimp should do the same and more slowly.

PPL also say SPS need high light. but the deepest growing photosynthetic coral on the planet is an SPS.

 

[KDirk]

The bacteria that consume no3 also consume po4 but not at the same rate, having some no3 will help but I wouldn't try to raise it over the po4 numbers. Water changes for the most part will take some time to reduce po4. I'm guessing your live rock is leaching po4 that's why its not coming down.

 

[ryboy707]

I thought about the dead shrimp method, but if I go that route then my phosphates will shoot up also, and I'm trying to bring phosphates down. I have no idea if this will work, or what the side effects will be, like I said I'm new to the hobby, but I'm giving it a shot. If anyone can chime lin with similar situation plz do. I will definitely update this thread with results.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I thought about the dead shrimp method, but if I go that route then my phosphates will shoot up also, and I'm trying to bring phosphates down. I have no idea if this will work, or what the side effects will be, like I said I'm new to the hobby, but I'm giving it a shot. If anyone can chime lin with similar situation plz do. I will definitely update this thread with results.

are you having any coral health problems? and they wont shoot up. they will go up. less than quickly than dosing unless you add VERY gradually. actually a cause of crashing.

 

[ryboy707]

Most corals look healthy enough, i dont have much, but I bought a stylophora colony that has seen better days yesterday, and I wanted to see if I could bring it back.

 

[Griff]

Very interesting. My phosphates have been as high as .67 in the last month. It's a constant battle to bring them down. All my corals seem to be doing ok. Not the best they've looked but not overly stressed either. I have mostly lps with a few sps. My nitrates are close to 0.

I recently tested with Hannah checker low range PO4 checker and it said zero. I've been changing phosphate sponges every 3-4 days and running a pretty large bag of phosguard. So either after a months time it finally worked or I messed up the last 2 tests. I find it hard to believe I'm at 0 that fast. Again about one month. I still have a slight hair algea issue witch makes me think there is still an undesirable level of PO4 in the tank. I'll test again tonight and let everyone know.

 

[Griff]

Phosphates came from a few sources I believe. Recent Midas blennie just disappeared one day. Di and carbon filters on RODI needed replacing. Added roughly 1000 pods to a 30 gallon system in an attempt to save a malnourished dragonet I purchased in hopes I could save him. He never ate any of them hence it was to late. My six line wrasse is fatter than ever now though.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Most corals look healthy enough, i dont have much, but I bought a stylophora colony that has seen better days yesterday, and I wanted to see if I could bring it back.

yea, your tank is really really really young. Personally I would stop doing anything. Ca Alk Mg. with near zero life in you tank WC should be more than adequate with a good salt choice. And Good food.
the more you dose the more unstable a system is or can be.
You are correct in a lot of your thinking on Po No and how its used,(i cured cyano w more corals chato 4 macros and higher lighting), but the system has to be stable before you introduce those elements that can create instability. Like HGH for an infant. IMO there are natural processes at work that will accomplish what you are attempting to do, and honestly after 4 billion years, its better than we are at it.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Very interesting. My phosphates have been as high as .67 in the last month. It's a constant battle to bring them down. All my corals seem to be doing ok. Not the best they've looked but not overly stressed either. I have mostly lps with a few sps. My nitrates are close to 0.

I recently tested with Hannah checker low range PO4 checker and it said zero. I've been changing phosphate sponges every 3-4 days and running a pretty large bag of phosguard. So either after a months time it finally worked or I messed up the last 2 tests. I find it hard to believe I'm at 0 that fast. Again about one month. I still have a slight hair algea issue witch makes me think there is still an undesirable level of PO4 in the tank. I'll test again tonight and let everyone know.

you should look into a fuge.

 

[ryboy707]

Yeah I haven't started dosing ca and alk yet but might have to start since putting those larger colonies in yesterday. I did a 4 1/2 gal water change on Thursday, and another on Saturday, and then tested everything. Ca was 430 Saturday, today was 420, alk was 9.6 Saturday, today was 9.0. Gotta set up my neptune DOS and read up on how much to dose.

 

[Griff]

you should look into a fuge.

Reefer 525xl is cycling now. Hopefully transferring everything very soon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

.25?!?!? Really?!?!?!? I'm pretty new to the hobby, so please excuse my ignorance. I read some ppl say .1 but wow. I thought .25 would be total death sentence to sps. I know everybodys tank is different but are there any constants when it comes to nutrient control?

Nutrients are a problem from two main perspectives. First, they drive growth of algae. Second, they drive growth of zooxanthellae which are brown and so turn corals brown.

Both of these can be limited by limiting nutrients, but they may also be limited in other ways (not always more desirable).

Herbivores can limit algae, for example, as can low trace elements (such as iron).

FWIW, some great tanks have phosphate as high as 1 ppm, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So in another thread I started I got some advice from a few folks on not trying to chase zero with phosphates and nitrates. I have been panicking over my phosphate levels, I cannot get them below .08 no matter how many water changes I do, nopox dosing, gfo, and chaeto. I was told to relax and actually I should try to get my nitrates above my phosphate level. I was new to that so I dived into the forums and found that many people dose nitrates with spectracide stump remover. This morning I did another round of testing and found that my phosphates had jumped to .16. So I ran to Petco and grabbed some phosguard and stopped by lowes and grabbed some spectracide. I mixed 6 teaspoons with 2 cups of water and since I only have a 29 gal biocube I put 2 ml in the tank. An hour later I tested nitrates to find a nice .2 reading. I'm gonna wait until tomorrow to check phosphates and see how the phosguard is doing.

I describe what I think are optimal levels of different nutrients here, but some can vary quite a bit and be fine.

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/

 

[ryboy707]

So is it safe to say that I need to find the sweet spot between excessive nutrients, which fuel algae growth and overfeed zooxanthellae which will brown out corals if theres too much, and starving the zooxanthellae with 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates because corals do need some zooxanthellae?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So is it safe to say that I need to find the sweet spot between excessive nutrients, which fuel algae growth and overfeed zooxanthellae which will brown out corals if theres too much, and starving the zooxanthellae with 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates because corals do need some zooxanthellae?

yes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, I agree too.