White Lighting As It Pertains To Algae

[vetteguy53081]

But again the reduction of algae (in theory) would be from overall PAR reduction. Not necessarily from a certain part of the spectrum being eliminated (or lowered in your case)

@Dana Riddle

 

[Lavey29]

But again the reduction of algae (in theory) would be from overall PAR reduction. Not necessarily from a certain part of the spectrum being eliminated (or lowered in your case)

I think scientific tests have shown certain spectrums such as white increase algae growth so why wouldn't limiting white spectrum decrease algae growth?

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

I think scientific tests have shown certain spectrums such as white increase algae growth so why wouldn't limiting white spectrum decrease algae growth?

Do you have a source for where these tests were performed and what the results were? I'd be very interested in reading that myself.

 

[Lavey29]

Do you have a source for where these tests were performed and what the results were? I'd be very interested in reading that myself.

There's a bunch of things that show up with simple Google searches.

Red, White, or Blue: Which color is right for you? Algae Growth under Different Colors of Light | Vasquez | Journal of Introductory Biology Investigations

undergradsciencejournals.okstate.edu

Algae with light switch

Flagellar adhesion of the green alga Chlamydomonas to surfaces is light-dependent, as discovered by O. Bäumchen of the Max Planck Institute for Dynamics and Self-Organization.

www.mpg.de

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

There's a bunch of things that show up with simple Google searches.

Red, White, or Blue: Which color is right for you? Algae Growth under Different Colors of Light | Vasquez | Journal of Introductory Biology Investigations

undergradsciencejournals.okstate.edu

Unfortunately, I don't have access to read the paper so some of these questions may be answered there, and I have no way of knowing. But these things are what pop into my mind.

Firstly, did they control for PAR differences between the different light sources? If not, then this isn't actually helping to settle the argument. Maybe they did. I have no idea.

Second, they did find that algae grew under pure blue light. The algae under pure blue grew even more than the algae grown under pure red.

That seems important because this study says nothing about the growth rate of algae vs coral. If you drop the white light and run only blues, does coral slow down just as much (or maybe even more) than the algae does? If coral suffers just as much as the algae, are you gaining anything by changing your lights? Are you making your coral less healthy while trying to make the algae less healthy?

Also running under pure blues is not going to stop algae completely. Yes, the white grew it "better" than blue, but by how much? 50% better, and that might be a tool worth using (assuming your aren't also harming your coral). If it's only 10% better, then maybe not so much. Again, this might be answered in the study, but I can't read it.

Maybe someone with access can fill in some of the blanks?

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Algae with light switch

Flagellar adhesion of the green alga Chlamydomonas to surfaces is light-dependent, as discovered by O. Bäumchen of the Max Planck Institute for Dynamics and Self-Organization.

www.mpg.de

That link doesn't say anything about growth rates, or even blue light. At all. They compared adhesion to walls between white light and red light.

They even hypothesize that the adhesion increase in the white light was because of blue light sensors in the algae. Which means that blue light and white light are likely to trigger the same adhesion response.

It seems like you don't actually have any evidence. You're starting from an assumption, namely, "White light helps algae grow faster, so reducing white is valuable", and then frantically searching for studies that support your assumption, and then sharing those cherry picked studies without thinking about whether they actually say what you want them to say...

 

[jdpiii3]

In my opinion algae isn't a lighting issue It's an imbalance in nutrients. Once you learn how to control the import and export of nutrients you will not have an abundance of algae that will develop. Whatever does develop will be easily maintained by your clean up crews.

I've had a natural sunlit reef going on 12 years.

 

[Lavey29]

In my opinion algae isn't a lighting issue It's an imbalance in nutrients. Once you learn how to control the import and export of nutrients you will not have an abundance of algae that will develop. Whatever does develop will be easily maintained by your clean up crews.

I've had a natural sunlit reef going on 12 years.

True it takes a combination of things at certain levels to promote algae.

 

[Lavey29]

That link doesn't say anything about growth rates, or even blue light. At all. They compared adhesion to walls between white light and red light.

They even hypothesize that the adhesion increase in the white light was because of blue light sensors in the algae. Which means that blue light and white light are likely to trigger the same adhesion response.

It seems like you don't actually have any evidence. You're starting from an assumption, namely, "White light helps algae grow faster, so reducing white is valuable", and then frantically searching for studies that support your assumption, and then sharing those cherry picked studies without thinking about whether they actually say what you want them to say...

You're more then welcome to research it and form your own conclusions. I just don't understand why every large coral vendor farm I've been in has significant blue and uv light over their frag tanks but little or no white? Things that make you go hhhmmmmm....good luck in your reefing journey

 

[Lavey29]

That link doesn't say anything about growth rates, or even blue light. At all. They compared adhesion to walls between white light and red light.

They even hypothesize that the adhesion increase in the white light was because of blue light sensors in the algae. Which means that blue light and white light are likely to trigger the same adhesion response.

It seems like you don't actually have any evidence. You're starting from an assumption, namely, "White light helps algae grow faster, so reducing white is valuable", and then frantically searching for studies that support your assumption, and then sharing those cherry picked studies without thinking about whether they actually say what you want them to say...

Have you ever seen a refugium with a chamber full of chaeto and a 12 dollar home depot white spotlight above it growing it like crazy?

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

You're more then welcome to research it and form your own conclusions. I just don't understand why every large coral vendor farm I've been in has significant blue and uv light over their frag tanks but little or no white? Things that make you go hhhmmmmm....good luck in your reefing journey

I have researched it. My conclusions do not align with yours. I wasn't able to find any research that convinced me that reducing white light provided any benefits in a reef tank.

You seemed pretty sure of yourself, so I wanted to know what research you had seen which I had not. Apparently, you haven't actually seen any convincing research either. So neither of us knows if it actually helps or harms the coral in the long run.

I'm just honest about it.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Have you ever seen a refugium with a huge chamber full of chaeto and a 12 dollar home depot white spotlight above it growing it like crazy?

Why do you think this is a useful thing to bring up?

 

[Lavey29]

I have researched it. My conclusions do not align with yours. I wasn't able to find any research that convinced me that reducing white light provided any benefits in a reef tank.

You seemed pretty sure of yourself, so I wanted to know what research you had seen which I had not. Apparently, you haven't actually seen any convincing research either. So neither of us knows if it actually helps or harms the coral in the long run.

I'm just honest about it.

I randomly selected the first 2 links that popped up on a simple Google search which contradicts your opinion. Not sure what else is required but perhaps you can put a little effort in and prove otherwise as I've seen nothing in the reefing hobby that promotes blasting white light for the DT. In fact all the evidence suggest the opposite. Now just explain to me why the vast majority says to limit white light in your DT? I think I know the answer but I'm curious if you do.

 

[Lavey29]

Why do you think this is a useful thing to bring up?

Uuuhhh. Because white light grows algae. Isn't that kind of what the topic is here or am I in an alternate world having a meaningless conversation with you?

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

I randomly selected the first 2 links that popped up on a simple Google search which contradicts your opinion. Not sure what else is required but perhaps you can put a little effort in and prove otherwise as I've seen nothing in the reefing hobby that promotes blasting white light for the DT. In fact all the evidence suggest the opposite. Now just explain to me why the vast majority says to limit white light in your DT? I think I know the answer but I'm curious if you do.

Are you familiar with "burden of proof"?

In case you're not, I'll provide a brief summary. All claims of fact are considered false until evidence proves a reason to believe they might be true. You are claiming that reducing white light is beneficial. I'm saying that I don't believe you without evidence. The burden of proof is on the person claiming the fact, not the person who is doubtful. I have no obligation to "prove you wrong".

I never said "blasting white lights to the DT" was good either. I just had the audacity to commit the sin of doubting your unfounded opinion.

I can actually provide an answer to your question about why blue lights are used, and I can link to an article by Dana Riddle that supports my answer, but that would be changing the subject. If you insist, I will provide my best answer though. Do you insist on changing the subject away from algae, and to "why coral farms use blue light?"

 

[reefinatl]

There are a nearly unmeasurable number of massive wall to wall SPS reefs that were grown out under 10k Ushio years ago. Using light to control algae is a crutch. If you want to go super blue that is fine, but to be scared of white because of algae is amateur hour.

This idea that reefs are "blue" is crazy. Does nobody ever go diving? Many natural reefs are pretty dang white in the lighting spectrum.

This is where many of your "high end" corals start life.

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

Uuuhhh. Because white light grows algae. Isn't that kind of what the topic is here or am I in an alternate world having a meaningless conversation with you?

Do you think that blue light of equal PAR does not also grow algae?
Do you think that white light will not grow coral as well?
For example, if I put a coral like Xenia under that lamp, would it accumulate biomass just as quickly as the algae did?
Why do you think that white light is better for algae than it is for coral?

 

[ptrick21186]

You're more then welcome to research it and form your own conclusions. I just don't understand why every large coral vendor farm I've been in has significant blue and uv light over their frag tanks but little or no white? Things that make you go hhhmmmmm....good luck in your reefing journey

Most likely to make the coral colors pop more and thus more enticing to the buyer

 

[Lavey29]

Are you familiar with "burden of proof"?

In case you're not, I'll provide a brief summary. All claims of fact are considered false until evidence proves a reason to believe they might be true. You are claiming that reducing white light is beneficial. I'm saying that I don't believe you without evidence. The burden of proof is on the person claiming the fact, not the person who is doubtful. I have no obligation to "prove you wrong".

I never said "blasting white lights to the DT" was good either. I just had the audacity to commit the sin of doubting your unfounded opinion.

I can actually provide an answer to your question about why blue lights are used, and I can link to an article by Dana Riddle that supports my answer, but that would be changing the subject. If you insist, I will provide my best answer though. Do you insist on changing the subject away from algae, and to "why coral farms use blue light?"

We disagree and will leave it at that. You provided nothing to support your opinion and I picked 2 random links to support mine and my input in this thread is complete. Don't know why I bought my radions. Should have just used a home depot bright white light over my tank. Oh well, live and learn

 

[reefinatl]

Do you think that blue light of equal PAR does not also grow algae?
Do you think that white light will not grow coral as well?
For example, if I put a coral like Xenia under that lamp, would it accumulate biomass just as quickly as the algae did?
Why do you think that white light is better for algae than it is for coral?

Dana did a big write up many years ago for a MACNA presentation that demonstrating spectrum does have a direct impact on growth. Equivelant PAR with varied spectrum will favor different corals and algae this isn't even a debate. Every industry from coral growers to weed farms know this and target specific spectrums for different uses.

This article is from 2002 and has references all the way back to the 80s.

Lighting the Reef Aquarium – Spectrum or Intensity?

This month Dana and Miguel discuss the importance of spectrum and intensity of aquarium lighting.

reefs.com

The influence of different light wavelengths on plant growth ⋆ VERTIKIT

Dr William Stiles – Aberystwyth University The technology of controlled environment agriculture (CEA) is fast developing and is increasingly recognised as an important component of future food production. A key advancement which has enhanced the potential for this approach to horticultural...

www.vertikit.co.uk

Red light (600-700 nm) – light from the red wavelengths is the main driver of vegetative growth. This means more leaves and more biomass

White, if you did not know contains the whole of the spectrum including red. By reducing white, assuming you are running very little to no red, you will reduce the "main driver of vegetative growth".