Getting right on my **** this ws now! Been treating it with medic from poly cell and it says switch your uv off so did and now the ws has spread into my chevron tang like crazy and my potters angel has died. Just rang my lfs and they said medic won't really work and that my uv bring switched off has probably caused the ws to spread. I don't know what to do and it looks like my tank is about to be wiped out!
White spot about to wipe my fish out
- Thread starter leecasey82
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No reef safe treatments work. The only treatments that do work will kill all your corals/inverts. So, your best option is to QT/treat all your fish, and leave the DT fallow for 72 days.
If your fish look heavily infested with spots, this may actually be marine velvet disease and not ich. Can you post some pics? You may not have a lot of time left.
If your fish look heavily infested with spots, this may actually be marine velvet disease and not ich. Can you post some pics? You may not have a lot of time left.
Are you using photobucket? If so, look here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-share-photos-from-photobucket.199040/
cginter
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Sounds like marine velvet if it spread that quick. And like Humble fish said, the only real reef safe method to curing this problem (ich or MV) is to QT all Fish and leave tank without fish for 72 days... If the fish is breathing really rapid i would lean more towards MV as that attacks the lungs pretty hard. But a picture would be better.
The picture of that Kole looks like velvet to me, or at the very least a really bad case of ich. Either way, you need to catch ALL your fish and get them into a QT ASAP. I'm gonna post some links/info below to help you.
How to setup a QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/
Velvet (Amyloodinium):
Symptoms - Because velvet can be such a fast killer, key behavioral symptoms will often prelude visible ones. A fish with velvet may breathe heavy, seek relief by swimming into the flow of a powerhead and act reclusive (velvet makes them sensitive to light).
If visible symptoms do manifest; velvet appears the same as ich, except the fish will usually be covered in “dust.” This dust may look gold colored if viewed at the right angle and under the right spectrum of light. Velvet is often misdiagnosed as ich and is the main “tank killer” in our hobby. It can wipe out all your fish in less than 72 hours and cannot usually be “managed” as ich sometimes is.
Treatment options - Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. Tank transfer and hypodoes notwork with velvet. A freshwater dip or formalin bath is recommended before treatment begins, due to the severity of this disease; however these would only provide temporary relief and will not eradicate velvet.
Velvet (Amyloodinium):
Symptoms - Because velvet can be such a fast killer, key behavioral symptoms will often prelude visible ones. A fish with velvet may breathe heavy, seek relief by swimming into the flow of a powerhead and act reclusive (velvet makes them sensitive to light).
If visible symptoms do manifest; velvet appears the same as ich, except the fish will usually be covered in “dust.” This dust may look gold colored if viewed at the right angle and under the right spectrum of light. Velvet is often misdiagnosed as ich and is the main “tank killer” in our hobby. It can wipe out all your fish in less than 72 hours and cannot usually be “managed” as ich sometimes is.
Treatment options - Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. Tank transfer and hypodoes notwork with velvet. A freshwater dip or formalin bath is recommended before treatment begins, due to the severity of this disease; however these would only provide temporary relief and will not eradicate velvet.
I would do a FW dip on all fish before placing them in QT. Once in QT, treat with copper and get it up to therapeutic levels ASAP (you don't have time to ramp it up slowly with velvet.)
Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.
How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.
Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.
For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.
Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.
Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for allchemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.
How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.
Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.
For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.
Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.
Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for allchemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
leecasey82
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Thanks humble fish it's got to be velvet they are swimming into the flow of my power heads as well, I'm just speaking to someone about a 4ft qt tank now to put them all in. Do I take my inverts out as well?
It might be difficult to find on such short notice, but if you can get you hands on some formalin that would be great. Formalin-MS would be ideal, but these products also contain formalin:
* Quick Cure
* Aquarium Solutions Ich-X
* Kordon Rid-Ich Plus
* Quick Cure
* Aquarium Solutions Ich-X
* Kordon Rid-Ich Plus
I'm gonna be honest with you ... your fish don't have until tomorrow. Velvet is not like ich; it is a fast spreading, devastating disease. The only chance for saving at least some of your fish is to get them into a QT and begin copper treatment TODAY.
