White spots on Powder Tang

ohiojeffsreef · Apr 12, 2017

Look I QT because I have learned some hard lessons, but not everyone agrees with it. I get tired of all the hate and snarky comments all the time. Though I use QT, not everyone agrees with that solution. I lose about 30% in QT. QT is not a perfect solution either. The fish is in an inferior tank with inferior volume and conditions, no matter how you try. That has its own issues. I am not sure there is a 100% correct solution to this. I try to approach things in a positive way instead of all the negative stuff that is out there.

4FordFamily · Apr 12, 2017

ohiojeffsreef said:
Look I QT because I have learned some hard lessons, but not everyone agrees with it. I get tired of all the hate and snarky comments all the time. Though I use QT, not everyone agrees with that solution. I lose about 30% in QT. QT is not a perfect solution either. The fish is in an inferior tank with inferior volume and conditions, no matter how you try. That has its own issues. I am not sure there is a 100% correct solution to this. I try to approach things in a positive way instead of all the negative stuff that is out there.

I hear where you're coming from, I appreciate the feedback. With acanthurus tangs we are talking about a 99% fail rate without proper qt and preventive treatment.

I don't mean to be snarky when stating facts, if that was your assertion. I tend to think the truth is the truth. Perhaps I should feather it better.

ohiojeffsreef · Apr 12, 2017

I understand, it is hard when you feel passionate about what you feel is right to put things in a supportive way. Even with QT the powder tangs are hard to keep. I am fighting with a powder brown now. I hit him with copper, clear the ick, but then it keeps coming back despite a new tank. I love James Brown but I fear I will eventually lose him. I can't keep him healthy.

4FordFamily · Apr 12, 2017

ohiojeffsreef said:
I understand, it is hard when you feel passionate about what you feel is right to put things in a supportive way. Even with QT the powder tangs are hard to keep. I am fighting with a powder brown now. I hit him with copper, clear the ick, but then it keeps coming back despite a new tank. I love James Brown but I fear I will eventually lose him. I can't keep him healthy.

You can't mess anything up with them, believe me I have failed several times. My acanthurus tangs are doing well in my ich-free system now but it was not easy..

Brooks Ross · Apr 18, 2017

Powder blue passed today

.

Seems that the symptoms get much worse at night and clear up during the day...

Think a few more are infected fish.

If I move the fish to a QT can i copper treat the DT? Is it ok to do copper solution and keep anenomes / shrimp / snails in DT?

I have no corals ..

Humblefish · Apr 18, 2017

Brooks Ross said:
If I move the fish to a QT can i copper treat the DT? Is it ok to do copper solution and keep anenomes / shrimp / snails in DT?

Copper will kill ALL corals/inverts. It also is very difficult to maintain a therapeutic level of copper in a DT due to absorption by the rock/sand. Absorption also makes it hard to get it all out after treatment has ended.

Brooks Ross · Apr 18, 2017

So what's the best method of treating Ich in the DT?

Humblefish · Apr 18, 2017

Brooks Ross said:
So what's the best method of treating Ich in the DT?

Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Brooks Ross · Apr 18, 2017

Thanks. Guess the only option is going fallow for 76 days. I can keep all my inverts in there , right?

azreeftank · Apr 18, 2017

4FordFamily said:
This is 100% true. Your fish is doomed without treatment of all the fish and the tank being run fallow 76 days, unfortunately.

You should act quickly, that looks like a really severe infestation. There's a great chance it's actually velvet, too. That's what it looks like to me..

I'm not sure I would say this is 100% true (if it's velvet then yes agree with you), is it advised to treat ick? absolutely. I have QT all my fish for 6-8 weeks with Prazi and copper and currently have 6 of the 14 fish in my tank being tangs- Achilles, Purple, yellow, Mimic, Blue Tang, Chevron to go along with a large Moorish Idol. All have gone thru QT and no tang has been added to my tank in over 3 years. My Achilles was the last one added and has constantly shown signs of ick for 3 years. He is the healthiest fish and definitely runs the show in the tank he's the boss. Ick management has worked for me, I don't advise it nor recommend but it's possible. Other than the blue tang no other fish has ever shown symptoms in the past 3 years. All fish are healthy and thriving. So in a effort to try and beat this after 3 years I decided about 3 months ago to incorporate a large UV and a cleaner wrasse to experiment with the Achilles ick. Not sure what did it but for the first time in 3 years the AT has zero signs of ick. For 2+ years he would get several ick spots and go for a week or so then clean for a few days then back with 15-20 spots and so on. This was non stop for 3 years. The last 6-8 weeks he has not shown any symptoms of ick. I'm positive the cleaner wrasse OR UV had a hand in helping. The cleaner wrasse pays a visit to him few times a day and he goes to town cleaning him, the Uv runs 24/7. It's actually quiet amusing and now the wrasse is the first fish to the large Nori station each day and pigs out with the tangs enjoying Nori and cleaning the fish.
So with that if I could take all my fish out again and treat/ go fallow then yes that's always my first advise but for me ick management was my only real option without tearing down my mixed reef. I have been fortunate in my 20+ years of keeping SW fish to never experience velvet. I keep a QT running full time now and IF you are able to take the fish out and treat I would recommend you do that. Just wanted to share my thought that ick management is possible. Daily I feed 4 sheets of Nori, LRS frozen, Spirulina flakes and NLS pellets all soaked with selcon and vitachem and it's worked for me. Best of luck to your tank.

Brooks Ross · Apr 18, 2017

I'm getting a qt tank today and going fallow for 76 days. Keeping my inverts in the DT.

Anyone use the QT tank for anything specific after the QT purpose is finished?

Can you make a mini reef with it (maybe clowns/anenome reef)

Or should I be strictly used for QT purpose if something else arises or new fish are added at any point

Reef Ryder · Apr 18, 2017

Brooks Ross said:
I'm getting a qt tank today and going fallow for 76 days. Keeping my inverts in the DT.

Anyone use the QT tank for anything specific after the QT purpose is finished?

Can you make a mini reef with it (maybe clowns/anenome reef)

Or should I be strictly used for QT purpose if something else arises or new fish are added at any point

Well you can't add copper based meds while the nems or coral are in.

Brew12 · Apr 18, 2017

azreeftank said:
I'm not sure I would say this is 100% true (if it's velvet then yes agree with you), is it advised to treat ick? absolutely. I have QT all my fish for 6-8 weeks with Prazi and copper and currently have 6 of the 14 fish in my tank being tangs- Achilles, Purple, yellow, Mimic, Blue Tang, Chevron to go along with a large Moorish Idol. All have gone thru QT and no tang has been added to my tank in over 3 years. My Achilles was the last one added and has constantly shown signs of ick for 3 years. He is the healthiest fish and definitely runs the show in the tank he's the boss. Ick management has worked for me, I don't advise it nor recommend but it's possible. Other than the blue tang no other fish has ever shown symptoms in the past 3 years. All fish are healthy and thriving. So in a effort to try and beat this after 3 years I decided about 3 months ago to incorporate a large UV and a cleaner wrasse to experiment with the Achilles ick. Not sure what did it but for the first time in 3 years the AT has zero signs of ick. For 2+ years he would get several ick spots and go for a week or so then clean for a few days then back with 15-20 spots and so on. This was non stop for 3 years. The last 6-8 weeks he has not shown any symptoms of ick. I'm positive the cleaner wrasse OR UV had a hand in helping. The cleaner wrasse pays a visit to him few times a day and he goes to town cleaning him, the Uv runs 24/7. It's actually quiet amusing and now the wrasse is the first fish to the large Nori station each day and pigs out with the tangs enjoying Nori and cleaning the fish.
So with that if I could take all my fish out again and treat/ go fallow then yes that's always my first advise but for me ick management was my only real option without tearing down my mixed reef. I have been fortunate in my 20+ years of keeping SW fish to never experience velvet. I keep a QT running full time now and IF you are able to take the fish out and treat I would recommend you do that. Just wanted to share my thought that ick management is possible. Daily I feed 4 sheets of Nori, LRS frozen, Spirulina flakes and NLS pellets all soaked with selcon and vitachem and it's worked for me. Best of luck to your tank.

Just about any fish can be kept in an Ich managed system as long as the water quality is great, the system is stable, and high quality food is used.

Some individual fish will never develop a natural immunity to Ich which seems to be the case with your Achilles. For the fish who do develop a natural immunity, all it takes is a heater failure and the fish can lose its immunity in a matter of hours. Even aggression issues can cause a fish to lose its immunity in a very short period of time. For anyone trying to maintain a system like this I would consider a UV system an essential piece of equipment. If properly sized with the correct flow, it will help keep parasite counts lower even if a fish isn't naturally immune and also help ride through any stability issues that can induce stress in a fish. It isn't going to be the end all/be all of any parasite problems but it is a great insurance policy.

Humblefish · Apr 18, 2017

Brooks Ross said:
Thanks. Guess the only option is going fallow for 76 days. I can keep all my inverts in there , right?

Yes, all corals/inverts remain in the DT for the entire 76 day fallow period.

Brooks Ross said:
Anyone use the QT tank for anything specific after the QT purpose is finished?

Can you make a mini reef with it (maybe clowns/anenome reef)

Or should I be strictly used for QT purpose if something else arises or new fish are added at any point

If you break it down & clean everything thoroughly with vinegar, the QT can be repurposed as a reef for corals/inverts. However, I highly recommend continuing to use it as a fish QT for future purchases. So you don't have to go through this ordeal ever again.

Brew12 · Apr 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
However, I highly recommend continuing to use it as a fish QT for future purchases. So you don't have to go through this ordeal ever again.

This +1

I run 3 tanks. I have a 120g DT, a 20g QT for corals/inverts, and a 10g QT for fish. We are even finding that it is very helpful to break down a fish QT periodically for disinfection. Drying it out and storing it on the shelf between fish purchases helps prevent a build up of bacteria that degrade medications. It is a lot more work on the front end, but it is very rewarding when you stop losing fish in your DT.

Brooks Ross · Apr 18, 2017

Brew12 said:
This +1

I run 3 tanks. I have a 120g DT, a 20g QT for corals/inverts, and a 10g QT for fish. We are even finding that it is very helpful to break down a fish QT periodically for disinfection. Drying it out and storing it on the shelf between fish purchases helps prevent a build up of bacteria that degrade medications. It is a lot more work on the front end, but it is very rewarding when you stop losing fish in your DT.

I would love to see your set up...any pics?