Who is at fault?

[bsr2430]

It would make zero since for the manufacturer to be at fault. Can you imagine every uv, calcium reactor, other reactors, ro units, and threaded connections that we use, and then blame the manufacturers if they leaked because we didn't tighten them or leak check them?

I’m thinking I can get a free trident.hahahahah

100% right though!

 

[ca1ore]

Hard to say ....

1. Anytime you install anything that holds water, making sure the connections don’t leak seems basic due diligence.
2. Always seemed best practice to me to not put something that can potentially leak over something that would be damaged by water. Display tank as obvious exception.
3. Use common sense and don’t over-torque plastic parts.
4. Imagine some, though perhaps not all, manufacturers would replace a product that leaked .... or replace the part that leaked. Most will not cover any downstream damage. Ruptured displays are a good example of this.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

My wife says it's usually my fault... ;Sorry;Sorry

 

[AZMSGT]

My wife says it's usually my fault... ;Sorry;Sorry

That’s ok, I blame you too.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

That’s ok, I blame you too.

Fair enough. She's usually right!

 

[Michael Gray]

Mine leaked. At first. Manual says if it leaks. Use blah and retighten. Manual states it might leak but here is a fix. But why not have a rubber seal around the base and top that unscrews to keep water from seeping in the bottom

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hard to say ....

1. Anytime you install anything that holds water, making sure the connections don’t leak seems basic due diligence.
2. Always seemed best practice to me to not put something that can potentially leak over something that would be damaged by water. Display tank as obvious exception.
3. Use common sense and don’t over-torque plastic parts.
4. Imagine some, though perhaps not all, manufacturers would replace a product that leaked .... or replace the part that leaked. Most will not cover any downstream damage. Ruptured displays are a good example of this.

Best wisdom of reefkeeping ever shared. Anything, the tank,HOB equipment, bulkheads, plumbing, dosing equipment, etc. I set up everything, turn each on slowly and check each connection for leaks until everything is flowing. I watch every joint for at least 5 minutes and leave paper towels anywhere I can wrap one around a joint . I check those every hour or so for the next few days.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Fair enough. She's usually right!

they have a hat for that too.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

b. The manufacture states in the manual that they won't be held accountable for leaks, in a warning for the installation specifically of the item that leaked.

It doesn't matter who is at fault, it says right there in the manual that they won't be responsible.

 

[MabuyaQ]

999% owner, seems there were plenty of warning signs what the consequences (including non liability of the manufacturer by default) could/would be when products are stacked in case of a leak.

 

[JustAnotherNanoTank]

Well, regrettably, think of it this way. You bought the car, bought the beer, drank the beer, chose to drive the car, then crashed the car. Only the user who made the decisions is at fault.

 

[Zydan777]

I believe that the owner would possibly be the one at fault. If the MF said that the item can leak if not properly tightened and it also state it is not responsible for leak damage it is very clear. I am still fairly new to the Reefing world but I always stir on the side of caution. I do multiple checks throughout the setup to insure that everything is working properly and I also come on this forum and ask questions if I need advice or opinions from experienced reefers. This hobby is an expensive hobby and it always pays to be cautious. If I have water running through a device that is by electrical I make sure it is not leaking. and if in the case it does leak I try to do preventative steps. The issue in question could have been mitigated if they would have put something betwwen the two units. A small pice of plywood could have redirected the leak to the ground instead of directly onto the below unit. This is just my opinion and can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[AZMSGT]

Time to spill the beans. This is the thread I was referring to and why I created this post.

The owner got an answer from GHL and they are not repairing the component that was leaked on.

GHL Doser 2.1 with Director.....Doser Fried?

I was hooking up my GHL KH Director tonight with the Doser 2.1 pump. I had the Director stack on top of the Doser 2.1. The first time I can a test for alkalinity it worked but I noticed the PH probe was leaking I tried running one more test and it was still leaking slowly. I then reseated the...

www.reef2reef.com

You might want to look at this post too.

QUESTION OF THE DAY - THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.

Now don't get mad at me on this one. I've thought about this one for a while, put it on a list, but never posted it because I didn't want it to go off the rails so to speak! But I think we're all adult enough to discuss this topic without it getting personal. So let me preface this with that. :)...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[lexinverts]

Time to spill the beans. This is the thread I was referring to and why I created this post.

The owner got an answer from GHL and they are not repairing the component that was leaked on.

GHL Doser 2.1 with Director.....Doser Fried?

I was hooking up my GHL KH Director tonight with the Doser 2.1 pump. I had the Director stack on top of the Doser 2.1. The first time I can a test for alkalinity it worked but I noticed the PH probe was leaking I tried running one more test and it was still leaking slowly. I then reseated the...

www.reef2reef.com

You might want to look at this post too.

QUESTION OF THE DAY - THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.

Now don't get mad at me on this one. I've thought about this one for a while, put it on a list, but never posted it because I didn't want it to go off the rails so to speak! But I think we're all adult enough to discuss this topic without it getting personal. So let me preface this with that. :)...

www.reef2reef.com

It’s not a good design, and if it is likely to leak on the first try, it’s bad support to recommend the stacked configuration.

How do you know if it leaks or not until you run it for the first time? The exact same thing could have happened to me on my first test run.

It boggles the mind why GHL would not fix this obvious design flaw in such an expensive piece of equipment.

 

[blfuller123]

I have the USAF jet engine background as well and was always taught to leak check anything with fluid, a habit I continue to this day. Also, when something leak checked good, we didnt go opening up cowls 2 days later to re-leak check that part again.

I currently work as a manager in a service based business and I own a small business. With either job, if I simply said sorry its your fault, not my problem every time it is a customers fault, I would eventually be out of a job and not have a business. I do say its your fault and sorry but thats not always how I handle these situations and I will make exceptions when there has been due diligence done on there part or at least do what I can to make it easier to resolve the problem.

This exact same scenario the OP is referring to happened to me with the same equipment . In my situation I do feel I am partially to blame because there was a warning in document that they put out. I did leak check mine and it wasnt until about a week and a half later that I discovered the leak and also feel that I did what I was supposed to as an end user (it leak checked good, at least for a week or so). I did contact the manufacture and all they told me to send photos and they could sell me replacement parts. There was no consideration for anything else.

 

[Gondore]

What the OP of this thread failed to mention is that there is no way to test this for leaks without running water through it! One run of water through it and the product could very well be ruined if even 5-10 ml of water leaked out. It was a dosing pump and a very small amount of water got on top of the encloser and fried it. These pumps are put underneath people's stands all the time. The reason it leaked is because the encloser on top of the doser is NOT sealed and lets water straight through to the electrical components. It's clearly a design flaw. If the water had leaked into electrical components or something like that on the back of the unit...I would understand, but this is on TOP of a unit that leaked due to two acrylic/plastic pieces not being sealed together. Additionally, the manufacturer's video says NOTHING about using a tool to secure the PH probe.

 

[Ditto]

I was hooking up my GHL KH Director tonight with the Doser 2.1 pump. I had the Director stack on top of the Doser 2.1. The first time I can a test for alkalinity it worked but I noticed the PH probe was leaking I tried running one more test and it was still leaking slowly. I then reseated the PH probe and used some Vaseline to help seal things up. I noticed a small puddle on the shelf where the unit was sitting (very small). I wipped it up and then noticed that I couldn't connect to my Doser 2.1 anymore. After looking closer the lights on the doser had gone out all together. I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in and still nothing. I did notice that the lights by the LAN port were still lite up but no other lights. I tried plugging the cord into my Slave doser and it powered right up without an issue. I then stuck my nose up close to the unit and smelled and it had that burnt electrical smell . My best guess is that a very small amount of water leaked down off the Director and into the power port on the Doser 2.1 and caused an electrical issue!! Any suggestions or help? I wish the directions would have explicitly said to but the Director on the BOTTOM when stacking, just in case there was a leak. Any thoughts or help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!

Manufacture fault because they warn you not to get the unit wet, and the person goes ahead and run two test after seeing it was already leaking after the first one?

This is what leak tests are for. The poster acknowledges they saw the leak on the first test. Why would you not stop the test fix the issue before doing the test again?

1000's of these been sold if this was a rampant issue I think we would see more of these type of posts. Mine has dripped leaked after I inserted the probe, when doing my 6 month re calibration.
When this has happened to me, I stopped the test and correct the issue.

This would be no different when installing my Calcium Reactor the PH probe leaks and let it go and it drips down and fries the motor running it.

The video may not say anything about using a tool, but the documentation does on page 30 of the manual not sure how much clearer they could have made it.

 

[OutLawX77]

I was reading a post about someones equipment that was ruined due to a leak. I'm trying to keep it vague as I don't think the manufacture needs to get thrown under the bus and neither does the owner. You can call it a question of ethics and there is no right or wrong answer. However recently Revtree posted a Question of the day on blame and it all got me thinking about this.

Here is the situation:

1. 2 components same manufacture, both have water running into and through them.
2. The manufacture states in the manual the items can be stacked or side by side.
3. Owner elects to stack them for space saving reasons.
4. Manufacture states to ensure all connections are tight and use a proper tool to tighten nut. (steps in the manual)
5. Owner proceeds to use equipment.
6. Equipment leaks from top item to bottom item and ruins the bottom item.
7. The point of the leak is where the manufacture states to use a tool to tighten a nut.

What we know:

a. Items can leak if not properly installed by the owner
b. The manufacture states in the manual that they won't be held accountable for leaks, in a warning for the installation specifically of the item that leaked.
c. The manual doesn't state to do a leak check on components.
d. The owner did not do a leak check after installing parts, if they had they would have seen the leak and prevented the damage.

What we don't know because the owner hasn't said specifically in their post

a. Did the owner use a tool to tighten everything? Owner was asked in posting but didn't respond to that question.

I have my opinion on the matter but will refrain from posting it for now.

Thats why
I keep my electronics in a separate cabinet
Just in case nothing in the sump area.
If it can be avoided.

 

[Gondore]

Manufacture fault because they warn you not to get the unit wet, and the person goes ahead and run two test after seeing it was already leaking after the first one?

This is what leak tests are for. The poster acknowledges they saw the leak on the first test. Why would you not stop the test fix the issue before doing the test again?

1000's of these been sold if this was a rampant issue I think we would see more of these type of posts. Mine has dripped leaked after I inserted the probe, when doing my 6 month re calibration.
When this has happened to me, I stopped the test and correct the issue.

This would be no different when installing my Calcium Reactor the PH probe leaks and let it go and it drips down and fries the motor running it.

The video may not say anything about using a tool, but the documentation does on page 30 of the manual not sure how much clearer they could have made it.

After the running the leak test I DID tighten the the PH probe more before performing the second leak test and it still leaked. GHL simple wants to brush the real issue under the rug and that is the fact that the doser enclosure has a major defect which is allowing even the smallest amount of water to get inside the unit. Additionally, I can guarantee many more people are using your official videos to perform the install. You are basically saying ignore our movies because they are wrong and it's your fault you didn't read both the manual and watch the movie.

I am done discussing this issue. It is clear to me that GHL does not care about their customers at all or about fixing their defective products. I will be returning my KH Director, Slave Doser, KH Ion, and selling the Master Doser once it's fixed and going back to Neptune who has treated me well for 10 years now.

 

[KenO]

I have a lot of GHL equipment. I prefer it over other brands. Having said that, since this equipment is used around water and with water flowing through different pieces I wish the various components had seals to protect it from the possibility of getting wet inside. I know there are open electrical ports on the backside, but I’m talking about water dripping on the top and having an easy way to get inside. Right now I have some of my equipment stacked. After seeing what happened my plan is to not have them stacked and sit them side by side and to raise the units off the shelf they are sitting on to prevent water from a leak from seeping into the equipment. My longer term concern is that each time the pH probe is removed recalibrated and reinserted the possibility of a leak will go up due to that process. Using a tool to tighten plastic pieces is not a good idea. Just look at various pvc plumbing pieces. They tell you to hand tighten and then go a 1/4 turn further. Over tightening can lead to leaks as plastic pieces get distorted.