Why are all my fish dying?

[PeterDolan]

I'm at my wit's end here. In the last three days I've received 8 and had 5 green Chromis and one algae blenny die. My wife and I are both very sad.

First, some specs on their tank and intake:
* 10 gallon bare tank
* 1.025 SG prepared with RO/DI water
* Filtered and agitated with a bubble sponge filter
* 78 degrees F, +/- 0.5 degrees control
* Ammonia currently 0.25 ppm. It's never read above 0.25 ppm, and we perform a 25-50% water change any time it registers above 0.
* Nitrites and Nitrates 0.0 ppm. It's never read above 0.0 ppm.
* 8.2 pH
* Dosed with 1ml Prime

8 green Chromis and an Algae Blenny arrived this past Tuesday. Today, Thursday, there are only 3 Chromis remaining.

On intake, we transferred the fish directly from the bag they arrived in to a 3 minute brackish (1.012 SG) bath with methylene blue (2 drops per liter). It was pH and temperature matched to their destination tank (it was 500ml of the destination tank water + 500ml of fresh RO/DI water). From there, they were rinsed in destination tank water and transferred directly.

The Blenny looked happy and comfortable on arrival. After 12 hours, he was breathing rapidly. He died overnight (found him at the 18 hour mark).

Of 8 Chromis, 5 are dead, and I fear for one more. I've seen them all developing broad reddish areas on their bodies. Typically the reddish area is on their body near their tail, or around their gills.

The Chromis go from happy and healthy and eating vigorously to reddish, gasping, and not eating anything in about 12 hours. After another 12 hours they're dead.

Is this Uronema marinum? Osmotic shock? Ammonia poisoning? What can I do?

Gallery of photos: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=TFBpNDM4cklqUUN6TnlGX3VYaHl1SHU3U2dBWVFn

 

[PeterDolan]

One good example of the reddishness is in this photo:



Another is still alive, but has red lesions on his skin above his gills:


Another is still alive, active and eating well, but is starting to develop a reddish tinge near their tail:


There are more photos of more fish, including the Blenny, in the album: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=TFBpNDM4cklqUUN6TnlGX3VYaHl1SHU3U2dBWVFn

 

[Fishfinder]

How long has the tank been up?

 

[PeterDolan]

The tank was prepared the night before the fish arrived. It had been cleaned with soap, thoroughly rinsed with hot water, rinsed with a 3% bleach solution, then left to dry for 2 days. It was completely dry when we put freshly mixed saltwater in it the night before the fish arrived. It had been heated and was aerating for 12 hours before the fish were introduced to it. All of the equipment was similarly treated, except for the sponge bubble filter which was new.

 

[SoreninKL]

I'm at my wit's end here. In the last three days I've received 8 and had 5 green Chromis and one algae blenny die. My wife and I are both very sad.

First, some specs on their tank and intake:
* 10 gallon bare tank
* 1.025 SG prepared with RO/DI water
* Filtered and agitated with a bubble sponge filter
* 78 degrees F, +/- 0.5 degrees control
* Ammonia currently 0.25 ppm. It's never read above 0.25 ppm, and we perform a 25-50% water change any time it registers above 0.
* Nitrites and Nitrates 0.0 ppm. It's never read above 0.0 ppm.
* 8.2 pH
* Dosed with 1ml Prime

8 green Chromis and an Algae Blenny arrived this past Tuesday. Today, Thursday, there are only 3 Chromis remaining.

On intake, we transferred the fish directly from the bag they arrived in to a 3 minute brackish (1.012 SG) bath with methylene blue (2 drops per liter). It was pH and temperature matched to their destination tank (it was 500ml of the destination tank water + 500ml of fresh RO/DI water). From there, they were rinsed in destination tank water and transferred directly.

The Blenny looked happy and comfortable on arrival. After 12 hours, he was breathing rapidly. He died overnight (found him at the 18 hour mark).

Of 8 Chromis, 5 are dead, and I fear for one more. I've seen them all developing broad reddish areas on their bodies. Typically the reddish area is on their body near their tail, or around their gills.

The Chromis go from happy and healthy and eating vigorously to reddish, gasping, and not eating anything in about 12 hours. After another 12 hours they're dead.

Is this Uronema marinum? Osmotic shock? Ammonia poisoning? What can I do?

Gallery of photos: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=TFBpNDM4cklqUUN6TnlGX3VYaHl1SHU3U2dBWVFn

hi Peter,

is that your quarantine set up?

 

[PeterDolan]

hi Peter,

is that your quarantine set up?

Yes. Those are the measurements of the tank the fish were transferred to on arrival, not the display tank.

 

[PeterDolan]

I've transferred the currently-sickest fish to a methylene blue bath (2L tank water + 5 drops methylene blue), hoping that it might be ammonia poisoning, and hoping that it might help the sores.

 

[ngoodermuth]

With the chromis, it does look/sound like uronema. You can try both dosing the water and feeding metroplex bound to food with focus. You'll need to do this for at least 10 days, maybe a bit longer, and I would keep them in observation for a month or two after - you do not want uronema sneaking into your DT. Another option would be CP if you have it.

Did you test the bag water which they were shipped in? Most of my orders have been coming in below 1.020, so going from that down to 1.012 and then all the way to 1.025 would be very stressful.

 

[Maritimer]

Hi Peter, and welcome to Reef2Reef. Happy you've joined us, less so for the reason . . .

Given that these are chromis, and the look of that red mark, I'd almost be surprised if they didn't have Uronema - chromis seem to have it more often than they don't.

Uronema's not an easy one. Humblefish has posted an article here on it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

An important thing to note is that Uronema isn't an obligatory parasite - there's no "fallow" period, as it can live either on or off of a fish. Whatever the outcome of this QT, be sure to sanitize your QT system afterward!

~Bruce

 

[PeterDolan]

Thanks ~ngoodermuth, I'll try to find some of that as soon as possible. Unfortunately I don't have any on-hand.

Unfortunately no, I didn't test the salinity of the bags they arrived in, and now I'm kicking myself for it. That's going on the intake procedures checklist today.

 

[SoreninKL]

With the chromis, it does look/sound like uronema. You can try both dosing the water and feeding metroplex bound to food with focus. You'll need to do this for at least 10 days, maybe a bit longer, and I would keep them in observation for a month or two after - you do not want uronema sneaking into your DT. Another option would be CP if you have it.

Did you test the bag water which they were shipped in? Most of my orders have been coming in below 1.020, so going from that down to 1.012 and then all the way to 1.025 would be very stressful.

+1
and there is a fantastic write up about "how to quarantine"

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/189815/

 

[ngoodermuth]

Thanks ~ngoodermuth, I'll try to find some of that as soon as possible. Unfortunately I don't have any on-hand.

Unfortunately no, I didn't test the salinity of the bags they arrived in, and now I'm kicking myself for it. That's going on the intake procedures checklist today.

I use a needle to poke a small hole below the water level in the bag, take a few drops to check, then tape over it with scotch tape.

That way you aren't actually opening the bag and starting the ammonia death clock. I'll let the bag float to temp acclimate while adjusting the salinity in my QT to match the bag.

Then it's straight out of the bag and into QT.

 

[PeterDolan]

Hi Peter, and welcome to Reef2Reef. Happy you've joined us, less so for the reason . . .

Given that these are chromis, and the look of that red mark, I'd almost be surprised if they didn't have Uronema - chromis seem to have it more often than they don't.

Uronema's not an easy one. Humblefish has posted an article here on it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

An important thing to note is that Uronema isn't an obligatory parasite - there's no "fallow" period, as it can live either on or off of a fish. Whatever the outcome of this QT, be sure to sanitize your QT system afterward!

~Bruce

Thanks Bruce for the welcome and for the information.

Sadly the fish with the lesion on his gills also succumbed. I've ordered Focus and Metroplex and will begin treatment as soon as possible.

Can Uronema survive without water? That is, would leaving the equipment in direct sunlight for several days to completely dry be a reliable sanitizing method? I intend to use soap, hot water, and a mild bleach solution as well.

 

[melypr1985]

It does sound like uronema is likely here. Chromis are very susceptible to this unfortunately. You can try the metroplex treatment but be sure to feed it with focus as a binder as well.

Definitely clean the QT after this. I wouldn't use soap on anything to do with the tank or it's equipment, but you can use bleach and a rag to clean everything then let it dry for a least 3 days to be sure every nook and cranny has completely dried out before setting it back up again.

Oh, and welcome to R2R! Sorry for your losses

 

[blitz49]

Sorry for your lost, if it is not uronema than it might be your tank. You said the tank was setup the night before? Tank might not be ready.

 

[Humblefish]

I feel we've reached a point where all chromis need to be prophylactically treated for uronema, first and foremost. It is just too probable that any new chromis you buy will be carrying the disease.

Chloroquine phosphate is the ideal treatment IMO, because it allows you to also treat for ich, velvet and brook simultaneously.

If CP cannot be obtained, dose metronidazole every 48 hrs for 10 days. Whether you dose CP or metro into the water, metronidazole will need to be food soaked (using Seachem Focus to bind it) to treat/prevent uronema from spreading internally.

If symptoms (white patches/red sores) show at any time during treatment, performing a 45 min formalin bath is the best way to provide temporary relief.

 

[Maritimer]

Can Uronema survive without water? That is, would leaving the equipment in direct sunlight for several days to completely dry be a reliable sanitizing method? I intend to use soap, hot water, and a mild bleach solution as well.

I'm sorry for the loss of this little guy.

Uronema can't survive long without water, but soap will leave a residue that'll have an effect on future fish.

You can use vinegar and bleach to clean the tank and associated equipment, then let it dry completely.

~Bruce

 

[4FordFamily]

This looks and sounds like uronemia as mentioned, but I also see red around the gills and noticed you had at least 9 fish in a 10 gal. Based on the timeline I think ammonia was as much of a factor as uronemia.

In a tank that small and that full I would be doing one very large water change per day for two weeks then every other for a week until my ammonia badge (by seachem) read yellow without them.

I agree chromis should be treated for uronemia as they nearly all have it. It seems like some can fight it off but the vast majority succumb in time -- particularly with any stress event at all.

Don't use any ammonia detoxifiers with meds (line amquel or prime), as a reminder.

 

[PeterDolan]

The remaining three have all survived the night, though one is showing a red mark developing near their tail.

I transferred them all to a new QT tank with freshly prepared water and clean equipment.

I've dosed the tank with Prazipro, and did a Prazipro dip on their way into a freshly prepared second QT tank.

 

[PeterDolan]

This looks and sounds like uronemia as mentioned, but I also see red around the gills and noticed you had at least 9 fish in a 10 gal. Based on the timeline I think ammonia was as much of a factor as uronemia.

In a tank that small and that full I would be doing one very large water change per day for two weeks then every other for a week until my ammonia badge (by seachem) read yellow without them.

I agree chromis should be treated for uronemia as they nearly all have it. It seems like some can fight it off but the vast majority succumb in time -- particularly with any stress event at all.

Don't use any ammonia detoxifiers with meds (line amquel or prime), as a reminder.

We were doing 50% water changes daily and monitoring the ammonia levels twice a day. They never exceeded 0.25ppm, and nitrites + nitrates were both always zero. Would ammonia still be suspect, given the attention we paid to it?

We'll be acquiring a 20 gallon tank since we saw some fighting in the tank, and won't crowd them so much again.