Why are so many frags so small?

[calvo15290]

Well that's why we have reef clubs you get nice frags for cheap . We can also buy from the small guys most small Gus I see sell good sizes for cheap


Andrew calvo

 

[Rikerbear]

You should join local reef clubs and look out for frag swaps and coral shows. Deals are always to be had.

+1
I also search craigslist....have met some great new friends and fellow reefers that way

 

[mike007]

One example is i bought a high end chalice frag from a vendor on this site. When i received it the frag was about the size of a dime. It didn't even look like the colony it came from. I have had it about three months and no change. Maybe in time it will turn out. I do understand the cost of running a business. But i know that these vendors have to make a profit but how much are they making? With the super cameras that these frags are being photographed they look so awesome we tend to go crazy and buy them only to be disappointed when we get them. I don't know the answer as where this hobby is going but i hope that we can afford to keep our tanks without going broke.

 

[CUNAReefer]

Support your local reef club. You can usually find some of the best deals from local reefers after they have bought the "LE" coral and grown it out. You can also support vendors that take the time to aquaculture pieces. These vendors have the same pieces over time and release them for sale only after they have taken the time to grow them out. ORA is a great example. You can choose to avoid the vendors that have newly named pieces every week. I've never gone through craigslist, but it sounds promising. One final option is eBay. See if you can hop in before the auction ends so you can snag some sweet pieces for cheap. There are plenty of ways to save money in this hobby... just avoid the pump and dump chop shops Good luck, James

 

[Eli J.]

+1 I saved hundreds trading with people through my local club. Not to mention the local help I can ask for in case of an emergency.

 

[dougers31]

I would say my number one pet peeve is not when a vendor posts a "new" high end coral, but the groupies that fall over themselves praising said coral. To me it almost seems like they are either friends with the vendor or paid. A nice coral should not need hype to sell itself, just a good pic and an honest and trustworthy seller.

 

[calvo15290]

I got this for25$ at the mtrc frag swap those are great ways to save frag swaps

Andrew calvo

 

[CUNAReefer]

I would say my number one pet peeve is not when a vendor posts a "new" high end coral, but the groupies that fall over themselves praising said coral. To me it almost seems like they are either friends with the vendor or paid. A nice coral should not need hype to sell itself, just a good pic and an honest and trustworthy seller.

Very well said dougers31. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Eli J.]

I would say my number one pet peeve is not when a vendor posts a "new" high end coral, but the groupies that fall over themselves praising said coral. To me it almost seems like they are either friends with the vendor or paid. A nice coral should not need hype to sell itself, just a good pic and an honest and trustworthy seller.

This is perfectly said. While I doubt there is collusion occurring, It sure does seem that way.

 

[mike007]

Where i live we have no reef club. I bought corals one time one ebay and they were vacumn packed in a plastic bag about the size of a candy wrapper. I don't even know how they survived. Never again. There are some vendors out there that have awesome chunky corals but nothing exotic. I just can't make myself pay $1250.00 for one eye of a chalice.

 

[Eli J.]

You should join local reef clubs and look out for frag swaps and coral shows. Deals are always to be had.

+1 I saved hundreds through my local reef club.

 

[WesF]

It's economics 101. Supply and demand. The prices are determined by the market

The prices are high because people pay it. If you are a vendor and price your corals so high that nobody buys them, you either go out of business or you drop the price until someone buys it.

If you don't like the prices don't blame the vendors, blame the hobbyists who are driving the prices up.

I don't get upset when a coral I like is too expensive because the "market price" drops quickly as more people grow it out and frag it.

Look at the "my Miami Chalice". A one eyed frag sold for $1500 only a few years ago. Now you can get a frag for around $200. In a couple years it will probably be <$100.

 

[mnat]

Buy WYSIWYG whenever you can. You will notice the vendors who are the worst offenders with bugger and dime sized frags will never post WYSIWYG. If people realized what they were shelling out hundreds of dollars for was no bigger than the top sliver of their pinky nail, they would not buy it. Support vendors that take the time to properly frag and heal a coral and take a picture of it like that.

I agree with the people above, go to frag swaps so you can actually see the corals. Again, the worst offenders won't even go to frag swaps.

 

[mnat]

It's economics 101. Supply and demand. The prices are determined by the market

The prices are high because people pay it. If you are a vendor and price your corals so high that nobody buys them, you either go out of business or you drop the price until someone buys it.

If you don't like the prices don't blame the vendors, blame the hobbyists who are driving the prices up.

It is not true supply and demand. And simple economics is not really in play here. First off, vendors create and manipulate the supply. There is technically an unlimited amount of supply as corals come from the ocean and are not built or created. If you can only make 50 widgets then yes the supply of widgets is small and the demand might be more than that which drives the price up. In this hobby, vendors either hold back supply, make up the fact that something is "limited", or just plain hype it up. Also vendors will resort to collusion to keep coral prices up. In other words, they will contact other vendors to purposefully keep prices up when supply is much more. Also, by just pricing their corals higher, they are driving prices higher because then wholesalers see the ridiculous prices being charged and then up their prices. So a vendor is manipulating the whole coral market and hurting everyone by keeping their prices high.

Then of course there are the prices themselves. Vendors will throw really high prices up and then work deals behind the scenes so that they are "taking care of" their customers. So they post prices high and then sell below. The whole premise of supply and demand is an equal distribution of information which is not the case here. Also check the resale value of some of the corals out there. When a vendor is charging 500 for a dime sized piece and people have trouble selling a 2 inch frag, then you know the supply and demand is not equal.

I will agree with you on one point though, there are people who get caught up in the hype and buy overpriced buggers and there are vendors who will prey on them. If those people are not educated they are getting ripped off, they might actually think they are getting a good deal.

 

[PaulKreider]

Cough cough... rainbow chalices...

 

[WesF]

It doesn't matter what sales techniques they use to try to drive up demand. Ultimately the same principle applies and the market will correct itself.

Something is only worth what people will pay for it. If people don't buy, you lower the price or go out of business.

You increase the price, demand drops. If there is nobody willing to pay your prices, you go out of business.

Who makes more money, Ferrari or Toyota? One company is has a larger profit margin, but demand is low. The other company makes less from each car sold but sells a ton of cars.

The people buying the ridiculously expensive frags don't do it because the don't know any better and are getting ripped off. Usually these people are serious hobbyists who have the cash to burn. I've never met any vulnerable newbies who would drop $1000 on a tiny chalice frag simply because they don't know any better.

In the coral business you are not only competing with other vendors. Your customers are going to eventually be selling frags of the coral you sold them for a lower price. So if you "release" a new coral and set the price, then people actually buy it at that price...You have a small window before multiple people are selling the same coral. Supply increases, and the price drops.

A frag of the red dragon acro i bought is worth a fraction of the pice I paid for my frag.

 

[mnat]

Red dragon is a good example (btw I spent a lot on my first frag too). The red dragon comes out and sells at 250 for a half inch piece. Why was it 250? Because someone made the price 250, no supply and demand. Within a month every vendor and most good stores had a dragon type of acro. Now you can buy whole colonies for 250. The vendor created the supply and put their price on it. It was marketed correctly (tyree) and the rest is history.

Btw I forgot to mention that vendors will also fraudulently create demand. They will plant people in threads to make a coral look like it is in demand when it is really not to trick people into thinking demand exists.

Also as far as people going out of business if they don't lower their prices. I said hey do lower their prices, just not their list price. They keep the list price high, sell some at lower prices, but again keep the website price high. They will get a few people to stumble on it and pay list. Or like jc penny, they can mark the price up, then make a big deal about putting it on "sale" when they are really selling it at what they were supposed to.

 

[TopNotchCorals]

Tell that to all the fanboys out there. It's absurd when a vendor brings out a new coral and throws a crazy name on it the charges a small fortune and all the fanboys start posting "great deal" or "great price". They are actually happy when the vendor drains their wallet.

I'm not a vendor...yet.:bigsmile: But I can tell you that it isn't cheap and easy running your own reef shop. This is a hobby that has grown so much within the last 12 years and I can't even imagine beyond that. Yes I remember the whole rocks full of z's n p's for $20 and all the other cheap nameless corals. The hobby is just different now, its a collectors game now. The variety of coral has improved so much too. I felt the same way before and still find myself laughing at some of the prices still. I have learned that I love this hobby so much that I'm willing to adapt to whatever it evolves into. I understand both sides of it as I grow with the hobby. JustMy2Cents!

 

[PaulKreider]

Im sure you can still find zoa rocks covered in zoas.... It just wont be of rastas, PE's or such.... Theres plenty of cheap no namer corals out there, youl just Have to sacrifice some color for price.

And honestly waiting isnt too bad, I bought 5polyps of eagle eyes about 9 months ago..... Now I have well over 200. I like to watch things grow

 

[robby2782]

Supply and Demand; you can find plenty of large bird's nest or digitata frags for almost nothing in your local club. Even Xenia fragments went for over a hundred at one time here in Dallas. Now you can't give them away, just like the Green Slimer and eventually the Red Dragon. lol