Why are some people anti-waterchanges?

[Treefer32]

I don't know why this post keeps creeping up. But we did clarify at one point No WC vs. an occasional wc. I do them 1-2 times a year at around 50%.

For a 340 gallon system, that's 180 gallons of salt water. I have capacity to do 75 gallons of salt water. So, I have the first batch of replacement water ready, drain the tank of 150 gallons approximately - to floor drain. Then fill sump 75 gallons. Then transfer 75 gallons of fresh water to 75 gallon salt water reservoir. Add salt and let mix until at desired salinity.

In between water changes, I dose Red Sea A, B, C, D trace elements, 3 part - baked baking soda, calcium chloride, and Magnesium sulfate mixed with magnesium sulfate. I also trickle dose Kalkwasser at the rate of 5 gallons every 7 days.

I see a rise in salinity around .0005 over 4-6 months (went from 1.0260 to 1.0265 on refrac. But that's also with skimmer removing 5 gallons of wet skimmate every 1-2 months. I'm not replacing any water with salt water. All testing and stuff that I do I remove salt water allow it to be replaced with freshwater. All of it's small amounts, but probably slows the salinity creap from dosing.

My corals and fish are happy. Some corals growing like weeds!

 

[buruskeee]

I used not to do water changes, but then I started having high nitrate and phosphate issues. I started doing water changes, and they helped lower those levels.

Please share some of those nitrates with me! I have to dose my 150g to not bottom out.

 

[Ljara78]

I guess because a water change might drop nitrates even further down for some people. I have a refugium and it sucks my nitrates way down and a water change would half that. So for me water changes have drastically diminished as opposed to when I first started.

 

[RSNJReef]

Something to consider:

If you are:

running heavy mechanical filtration through filter floss rollers and protein skimmers

Adding new rodi water through top offs

dosing the major/minor/trace elements,


If you’re doing all of the above and it’s efficient enough, you are essentially doing water changes, just not in the conventional sense. When we do what we consider to be the essential water change what we’re doing is accelerating the reset of the water back to its original state.

I personally am an advocate for doing the conventional water change because my systems filtration system and tank inhabitants can’t keep up with the heavy feedings I do, but, my routine works for me and I can manage the waves in nutrients.

 

[MnFish1]

Something to consider:

If you are:

running heavy mechanical filtration through filter floss rollers and protein skimmers

Adding new rodi water through top offs

dosing the major/minor/trace elements,


If you’re doing all of the above and it’s efficient enough, you are essentially doing water changes, just not in the conventional sense. When we do what we consider to be the essential water change what we’re doing is accelerating the reset of the water back to its original state.

I personally am an advocate for doing the conventional water change because my systems filtration system and tank inhabitants can’t keep up with the heavy feedings I do, but, my routine works for me and I can manage the waves in nutrients.

Just FWIW - topping off water is not changing any water. It's totally correct that the water removed from skimmers, etc is the same as a 'water change' but would normally be a very small amount compared to a lets say 10% water change.

 

[RSNJReef]

Just FWIW - topping off water is not changing any water. It's totally correct that the water removed from skimmers, etc is the same as a 'water change' but would normally be a very small amount compared to a lets say 10% water change.

Well, think of it this way, if you buy an ESV salt mix kit, take some rodi and just added in the trace and major elements, not the salt, and top off with that, you’re essentially replenishing the water lost through evaporation and your mechanical filtration and skimmers took out your DOCs, so, the only thing thats not being changed is the original sodium chloride, so if that’s what someone considers to be a non water change (that the original sodium chloride exists in the tank), then, so be it I guess.

The irony here is I change 5-20% of the water on my tanks every week, lol

 

[MnFish1]

Well, think of it this way, if you buy an ESV salt mix kit, take some rodi and just added in the trace and major elements, not the salt, you’re essentially replenishing the water lost through evaporation and your mechanical filtration and skimmers took out your DOCs, so, the only thing thats not being changed is the original sodium chloride, so if that’s what someone considers to be a non water change (that the original sodium chloride exists in the tank), then, so be it I guess.

The irony here is I change 5-20% of the water on my tanks every week, lol

I'm going to question your thought - mainly because most reefers (who I was addressing in part) - are not doing what you are saying. So - top off water is basically replacing water that has evaporated (the usual definition) - If other chemicals/products are added - that does change the math some. However, as compared to a 25% water change (for example) - will far outstrip the rest of the filtration.

 

[RSNJReef]

I'm going to question your thought - mainly because most reefers (who I was addressing in part) - are not doing what you are saying. So - top off water is basically replacing water that has evaporated (the usual definition) - If other chemicals/products are added - that does change the math some. However, as compared to a 25% water change (for example) - will far outstrip the rest of the filtration.

Absolutely agreed on a 25% dumping of old tank water will outcompete any mechanical filtration on a weekly basis, but the fundamentals are there for the guys that say “they don’t do water changes”.

After being in this hobby for over a decade though, it all moves in trends. Most of us that have been around for a bit can remember 5-6 years ago when everyone said ph doesn’t matter, and thought Chris Meckley was out of his mind on how he went on about yes it does matter, a lot, until BRS did their video where they showed with calculated evidence that higher PH made their corals grow at least 25% faster, then everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

I’m seeing the trends start to go back now to the way it was over 10 years ago, the guys that were religious about “no water changes” are starting to go back to water changes, or at least changing their water at a rate of 25-50% every 3-6 months, and even metal halides are making a comeback because people are starting to see that the diodes in many of the leds out there aren’t what we used to call full spectrum.

At the end of the day, it’s all different means to the same end, if I spent 20 minutes on this forum I guarantee I can find a handful of tanks that look better than mine where no water changes are done, as well as a handful of tanks where water changes are done weekly. At the end, it’s bad stuff out, and good stuff in, be it through a conventional water dump and replenish, or doing it in pieces through top off, over filteration, and dosing. In the end, if your tank looks healthy and you have no issues, you’re doing it right.

 

[buruskeee]

Im neither for nor against water changes, as I think there are methods of not doing water changes that will produce the same goals as doing water changes. For those not doing water changes, a very high export method is needed (not for nutrients, but for DOC more importantly).

I dose trace and monitor the tank very closely. I don’t use Ozone and so once I see my ORP drop its daily peak below 300, I do a 20% water change and it jumps back up to 350-370. I know salts sometimes have high ORP out of the box, but this is my non scientific way of staying on top of DOC without doing an actual nDOC test.

It’s tough (for me) to not bottom out nutrients when doing WCs weekly.

 

[GARRIGA]

Something I’ve forgotten to mention yet recent events bring to bear. Should there me another global event and salt became scarce then changing water might become no longer viable. Perhaps best at a minimum have the tank setup to handle prolong periods without access to salt. Plus what is available might be contaminated due to lack of safe handling practices or other concerns.

 

[Budman93]

I do one every couple weeks on my 40g but if I had a large tank i almost surely would be relying on dosing and other means of nutrient export than regular water changes.

 

[Raul-7]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Are there DOCs that are not commonly measured (NO2, PO4, NO3, NH3) yet still harmful?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Are there DOCs that are not commonly measured (NO2, PO4, NO3, NH3) yet still harmful?

Yes. Toxins from dinos, Cyanobacteria and other types of bacteria, macroalgae, and other organisms are dissolved organic compounds.

 

[billyocean]

I'm a waterchange guy at heart. It's always worked for me but soon I'm going to a 300 gallon tank so I've moved to moonshiners. The cost of salt at the rate I change water in my 125 vs what the moonshiners costs in the long run is what spurred my change. Everything has been fine and color has improved more with moonshiners. There is and will be sand in my DT so the occasional 5-10 gallon siphoned of sand is still a part of my regimine. I'm not so locked in that if I see problems I'm against a few waterchanges to get back to a baseline or dilute the issue. Nothing wrong with either method as long as the corals are healthy IME. My corals looked fine on the waterchange route as well as moonshiners. As long as attention and the required work are put in the benefits will be reflected IMO. Aside from some catastrophic failure of tank or equipment...the biggest problem I see is when reefers get lazy

 

[GARRIGA]

Yes. Toxins from dinos, Cyanobacteria and other types of bacteria, macroalgae, and other organisms are dissolved organic compounds.

What other options are there to remove that besides water changes? Perhaps Sponges?

 

[DCR]

What other options are there to remove that besides water changes? Perhaps Sponges?

Bacteria are the ultimate CUC.

 

[Raul-7]

Bacteria are the ultimate CUC.

But I assume those type of bacteria exist in the depths of the pelagic zones?

 

[Solo McReefer]

What other options are there to remove that besides water changes? Perhaps Sponges?

Carbon, GAC
Resins
Protein skimmer
Ozone

Flocculants probably

 

[GARRIGA]

Carbon, GAC
Resins
Protein skimmer
Ozone

Flocculants probably

Then is there an actual concern with DOC or just another item than can be easily solved?

 

[GlassMunky]

Then is there an actual concern with DOC or just another item than can be easily solved?

DOC is actually pretty complicated but there are means to managing it.

EDIT: just posting this link for further info, I'm not sure if i believe his conclusions 100% yet

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

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