Why cant u keep sps?

[SeaDweller]

Ppl I have a 120 and 40 gallon sump full of 40 yr old ocean live rock I do water changes maybe 2x a month and can grow SPS no problems have not tested the water in years I can see when it is not happy and do a water change. Only thing I put in tank besides food is esv 2 part and I feed once every other day. I have a purple Tang about 3c Inches bill Tang and fix face all about the same size the 5 other smaller fish. I run led's for lights run a small skimmer a ramora. No filter socks no "gadgets" at all water turn over is about 5 to 6 times an hour.

Let’s see some pics of this SPS tank of yours that you’ve got tuned to the T!

 

[nick0206]

Вопрос в том, как мы прививаем правильные бактерии, а не "любые бактерии". Помимо живого камня, я не видел доказательств того, что что-то еще дает бактерии, которые составляют сообщество в зрелом рифовом аквариуме. Я имею в виду, если бы рыбная корма была всем, что было нужно, разве во всех аквариумах не было одинаковых бактерий? У всех нас есть рыбная какашка.
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When I first time started up with Zeovit, I ordered live rocks from Indonesia. On the Korallen-zucht website, the instructions for launching a tank on Zeovit say about the importance of live rocks for a correct and easy cycle.
The first cycle failed. I spoke with the owner of Korallen-zucht. They forgot to note on the site that live rocks with bacteria suitable for the Zeovit system had to be bought from them, while Indonesian ones were not suitable, there were other bacteria.

 

[iiskevinn]

What about amino acids and vitamins? Do they play a part in this as well?

 

[ycnibrc]

Here is another example of nowadays reefing compare to the old day.
Years ago we follow 1lb per gallon live rock rule so our tank is full of rock therefore more place for bacteria to populate. So even though coral grow to colony size the bacteria population is still can handle the consumption. My old sps tank

Nowadays minimalist rock scape is the popular method plus bare bottom and running algae reactor

As tank mature and coral grow the bacteria has no place to grow which soon they will be depleted. The cycle of starting out great for 6 to 9 months then crash is so obvious what cause it

 

[ycnibrc]

What about amino acids and vitamins? Do they play a part in this as well?

They are coral food which help however bacteria clean your water and also become food for the coral. U can mix a perfect parameters saltwater but u cant keep coral in it because of parameters alone dont make your water good for corals

 

[ycnibrc]

U can try aquaforest or fauna marin or red sea they all have their own bacteria system.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I’ve started dosing the Zeobak and Zeofood plus. We’ll see how things go.

 

[ScottB]

Fish poop!

I certainly count fish poop as a bacterial conduit. Just like the raw shrimp, clams, mussels, squid, oysters that I chop up and toss in the tank. Yeah, it is food grade and therefor irradiated but it must add some.

 

[ycnibrc]

I’ve started dosing the Zeobak and Zeofood plus. We’ll see how things go.

Dose 50% for 3 months then increase 10% each month until reaching full dose. How come u skip zeostart3?

 

[iiskevinn]

I’m playing spectator here but I’ve wanted to give sps a try once again since I’ve had failures in the past. Just got a bubblegum digi this past weekend. I’ve been keeping LPS mainly euphyllias but would dream of keeping sps as well

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Ive read that ammonia is much more useful to corals than nitrates. Does algae use ammonia? If not, could we dose ammonia instead of nitrates to supplement low nutrients?

 

[ScottB]

Ive read that ammonia is much more useful to corals than nitrates. Does algae use ammonia? If not, could we dose ammonia instead of nitrates to supplement low nutrients?

I've read similar about the value of ammonia to coral nutrition. Part of the symbiosis that fish (ammonia producers) bring to the reef.

I want to say it is my experience that at least some algaes can grow from ammonia alone, in an otherwise 0/0 nutrient tank. It is a frag system with a lot of sizeable fish and no matter how thoroughly I scrubbed, WCs, and GFO could not get rid of it. Eventually had to nuke it with fluconazole. That same system now runs my normal 5-10 and .08 with no algae. Never got a good ID on it; similar to GHA in texture but more brown.

 

[ycnibrc]

Ive read that ammonia is much more useful to corals than nitrates. Does algae use ammonia? If not, could we dose ammonia instead of nitrates to supplement low nutrients?

U mean phosphate right? Sps need phosphate to grow but they dont uptake phosphate as good as nitrate. In the other hand bacteria eat phosphate better than nitrate. So to complete the cycle bacteria consume phosphate, coral eat bacteria therefore eat phosphate.

 

[reefluvrr]

I wonder how much diverse or beneficial bacterial is still "available/present" in old live rocks from refers lucky enough to have used live rocks back then. I'd imagine some of those tanks were treated with antibiotics for some reason or other. Others over the years may have tried ozone or uv for the sake of trying something new in reefing hobby. I also read that it is more likely some bacteria on live rocks will "out compete" other beneficial bacteria on the same rock resulting in less diversity over time. I believe it is mentioned as being called monocolonization in other threads. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

The reason I am asking about this to to help readers consider: just because I picked up some old live rock from the fish store or friends place, are we are truly getting a diverse amount of bacteria for our tanks...

 

[ScottB]

I wonder how much diverse or beneficial bacterial is still "available/present" in old live rocks from refers lucky enough to have used live rocks back then. I'd imagine some of those tanks were treated with antibiotics for some reason or other. Others over the years may have tried ozone or uv for the sake of trying something new in reefing hobby. I also read that it is more likely some bacteria on live rocks will "out compete" other beneficial bacteria on the same rock resulting in less diversity over time. I believe it is mentioned as being called monocolonization in other threads. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

The reason I am asking about this to to help readers consider: just because I picked up some old live rock from the fish store or friends place, are we are truly getting a diverse amount of bacteria for our tanks...

Another good question. For those of you really into this discussion I feel you would equally enjoy a dive into the @AquaBiomics threads and white papers here.

 

[ScottB]

I’m playing spectator here but I’ve wanted to give sps a try once again since I’ve had failures in the past. Just got a bubblegum digi this past weekend. I’ve been keeping LPS mainly euphyllias but would dream of keeping sps as well

Bubblegum digi is a fine place to (re)start.

 

[ycnibrc]

I wonder how much diverse or beneficial bacterial is still "available/present" in old live rocks from refers lucky enough to have used live rocks back then. I'd imagine some of those tanks were treated with antibiotics for some reason or other. Others over the years may have tried ozone or uv for the sake of trying something new in reefing hobby. I also read that it is more likely some bacteria on live rocks will "out compete" other beneficial bacteria on the same rock resulting in less diversity over time. I believe it is mentioned as being called monocolonization in other threads. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

The reason I am asking about this to to help readers consider: just because I picked up some old live rock from the fish store or friends place, are we are truly getting a diverse amount of bacteria for our tanks...

I believe if you already have the bacteria in the rock they will continue to multiply. The question is as your tank mature and your corals grow do u have enough? Back to my argument on rock in the tank if u look at my post comparing the old reef tank and new reef tank u can see the modern reef tank is lacking surface area for bacteria to grow

 

[ycnibrc]

As far as uv killing bacteria u need commercial grade uv to do that. The uv for reef tank is best at control algae spore and clarify the water. Kill parasites and bacteria just not very efficient with hobby grade uv

 

[Waynerock]

Just started zeobak dosing 2 weeks ago, I have been keeping good records and Picts for growth progression BTW aquarium Cam is great for watching progress. We will see if I notice any extra growth and extra color. My ASD rainbow Mille is stalled out but I noticed little shoots popping out all around so maybe it’s waking up.

 

[ScottB]

I believe if you already have the bacteria in the rock they will continue to multiply. The question is as your tank mature and your corals grow do u have enough? Back to my argument on rock in the tank if u look at my post comparing the old reef tank and new reef tank u can see the modern reef tank is lacking surface area for bacteria to grow

Related question then: Assuming the same bacteria colonies exist, are all surface areas the same? More specifically, is super-porous ceramic surface just as healthy for bacteria colonies as porous reef rock?