Why cant u keep sps?

[ScottB]

May I ask if I should stop using GFO then so that I can leave that for bacteria?

GFO can serve the specific purpose of lowering phosphates. Rapidly, which is not always good. Bacteria can also consume phosphates perhaps more gently, and COULD be a better long term answer.

As @Daddy-o asks what are your current phosphate levels? And do you have a present algae issue that you are dealing with?

 

[alfpiccolo]

How old is your reef? what is your phosphate level? are you having issues?

Six years old tank.
phosphate were at 0.8 but the corals do fine with good colors. But know that it should be close to 0 , started using GFO four weeks ago after I introduced 11 new sps frags. Last few weeks,phosphate has been at 0.00 because of that.
Not having issues yet but do not want to take out all the phosphate for the “bacteria”per discussion.
So should I stop GFO.
History was that I only use skimmer and water change with no carbon or GFO
For the last 18 months until a month ago.

 

[alfpiccolo]

GFO can serve the specific purpose of lowering phosphates. Rapidly, which is not always good. Bacteria can also consume phosphates perhaps more gently, and COULD be a better long term answer.

As @Daddy-o asks what are your current phosphate levels? And do you have a present algae issue that you are dealing with?

Thank you for your kind and prompt reply.
I’m I do not have any algae issues.

I do dose blue bottles:
K-Balance
Flatworm Stop
Coral Booster
Amino acid concentrate
Coral Vitalizer

 

[ScottB]

Six years old tank.
phosphate were at 0.8 but the corals do fine with good colors. But know that it should be close to 0 , started using GFO four weeks ago after I introduced 11 new sps frags. Last few weeks,phosphate has been at 0.00 because of that.
Not having issues yet but do not want to take out all the phosphate for the “bacteria”per discussion.
So should I stop GFO.
History was that I only use skimmer and water change with no carbon or GFO
For the last 18 months until a month ago.

Yes. Stop GFO now. You had it right before with good colors. The "modern school" of easy reefing is .05 to .1 on PO4. If you aim for 0 PO4 I will see you in the dinoflagellate thread soon enough. Don't go there. Not a happy place.

The OP can speak better about using bacteria to make the PO4 easily and STABLY consumed by bacteria and then corals. I am still learning that part. Don't join me in the dino thread.

 

[ycnibrc]

May I ask if I should stop using GFO then so that I can leave that for bacteria?

GFO is an absorbing agent. Bacteria consume phosphate naturally. GFO is a quick fix or good for fish only tank. In the reef tank its best to avoid gfo unless it’s a must. If i can chose between the 2 i will chose bacteria

 

[Roberto Denadai]

As tank mature and coral grow the bacteria has no place to grow which soon they will be depleted. The cycle of starting out great for 6 to 9 months then crash is so obvious what cause it

I think you are wrong . More than 3 years , pics bellow I had more than 10 different tanks in the last 20 years and I never had a single crash.

 

[ycnibrc]

I think you are wrong . More than 3 years , pics bellow I had more than 10 different tanks in the last 20 years and I never had a single crash.

Looking good i never say i was right its just my observation base on multiple tank. Reefing doesnt have a manual , different tank react differently however u can get a sense of multiple tank and find a common theme. If i have a proven method which guarantee success then im not here chatting with u

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I think you are wrong . More than 3 years , pics bellow I had more than 10 different tanks in the last 20 years and I never had a single crash.

Black Magic.

Anyone dosing Tropic Marin Plus NP? It’s supposed to be a form of phosphate that isnt used by algae as easily as it is Bacteria.

 

[SeaDweller]

Six years old tank.
phosphate were at 0.8 but the corals do fine with good colors. But know that it should be close to 0 , started using GFO four weeks ago after I introduced 11 new sps frags. Last few weeks,phosphate has been at 0.00 because of that.
Not having issues yet but do not want to take out all the phosphate for the “bacteria”per discussion.
So should I stop GFO.
History was that I only use skimmer and water change with no carbon or GFO
For the last 18 months until a month ago.

You can reduce the amount of gfo you’re using, ie use half the amount.

I run Rowaphos at full strength currently, but I also feed 6-7 times a day. My PO4 reads 0.10 ppm on salifert, but in reality it’s probably higher, I’m guessing 0.15-0.20.

 

[Big E]

GFO is an absorbing agent. Bacteria consume phosphate naturally. GFO is a quick fix or good for fish only tank. In the reef tank its best to avoid gfo unless it’s a must. If i can chose between the 2 i will chose bacteria

I use GFO 24/7 and have never had problems for years with it.

None of the commercial bacterial systems ever impressed me with keeping Po4 under control and stable long term. Zeo is probably the only one with a decent track record and that's because it strips everything only to have to dose it back in at heavy costs.

 

[ScottB]

GFO is an absorbing agent. Bacteria consume phosphate naturally. GFO is a quick fix or good for fish only tank. In the reef tank its best to avoid gfo unless it’s a must. If i can chose between the 2 i will chose bacteria

And that is because bacteria convert PO4 to coral food?

Can the remainder be captured by the skimming process?

I know how to dial GFO -- in my case about 1/4 cup running 4 hours per day changed out when PO4 reaches .08 or so. How do I figure out bacteria dosing? Do I keep my available PO4 the same or am I better lower than with GFO since corals are being fed?

This is cool discussion.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Wow I am glad to see seadweller and big e still using gfo. I am not using it right now but I used to use it 24/7. It’s actually safe and easy to use if you have used it before. Or if you understand the do’s and dont’s of it and are going to test daily until your used to using it and observing the corals.
I am using vinegar and nitrate dosing to lower my po4 right now and I have been using this method ever since using a carbon source years ago. It’s my favorite method but I wouldn’t start using a carbon source just to try it. I would use gfo first.
I am still using reef bugs and rebiotic once a week but have cut back a little bit now that my corals have started to grow. I do not plan on using it for an extended period of time because I don’t believe it’s needed. I am not even sure it has helped but I want to believe it has. Corals could have bounced back given the amount of time i let things sit for. But again it has been a year since the tank change and stuff never did well until recently, but I also added four or2 bars so that could have been a big part of it even though I am running radiums as my main lights.

 

[ycnibrc]

And that is because bacteria convert PO4 to coral food?

Can the remainder be captured by the skimming process?

I know how to dial GFO -- in my case about 1/4 cup running 4 hours per day changed out when PO4 reaches .08 or so. How do I figure out bacteria dosing? Do I keep my available PO4 the same or am I better lower than with GFO since corals are being fed?

This is cool discussion.

In a spirit of Christmas
Yes the acropora can capture floating bacteria either with their polyps or body slime. According to tropic marin sps capable of consume nitrate very well but not phosphate. By eating the bacteria floating in water they indirectly consume phosphate because the bacteria is very good at consuming phosphate.

 

[ScottB]

The old live rock from the ocean came with multiple strain of bacteria so back then all we have to do is to wait for the tank to be mature then maintain the parameters then we are good.
Now i have seen tank from my club members that 3 to 4 year old and still no grow and can’t keep sps. The only different from me to them is i dose bacteria and they are not.
I read this article about BMC aka beneficial micronism for corals and definitely beneficial bacteria help sps to be more healthy.

Beneficial Microorganisms for Corals (BMC): Proposed Mechanisms for Coral Health and Resilience - PMC

The symbiotic association between the coral animal and its endosymbiotic dinoflagellate partner Symbiodinium is central to the success of corals. However, an array of other microorganisms associated with coral (i.e., Bacteria, Archaea, Fungi, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That was quite the read. May have to re-read it a few times. An astonishing number of potential interactions, battles, and symbiotic relationships come together for survival.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I think that a lot of my troubles with sps come from algae outbreaks. I get this weird algae that I can’t ID. Snails don’t eat it. It’s like a light brown hair algae. Once this stuff booms, it’s hard to keep nitrates and phosphate above zero. I then have sps begin to stn from the base up. Dosing nitrates and phosphate only makes it worse.

Thats why I’ve chosen to give out Bacteria dosing a shot; trying to feed the corals without feeding the algae.

 

[ycnibrc]

I think that a lot of my troubles with sps come from algae outbreaks. I get this weird algae that I can’t ID. Snails don’t eat it. It’s like a light brown hair algae. Once this stuff booms, it’s hard to keep nitrates and phosphate above zero. I then have sps begin to stn from the base up. Dosing nitrates and phosphate only makes it worse.

Thats why I’ve chosen to give out Bacteria dosing a shot; trying to feed the corals without feeding the algae.

U need to feel your tank population and dose accordingly. Bacteria dosing wont work if u follow the manufacture instruction. For example on zeovit they recommend 1 drop per 25g.
Tank A 100g with 50 frags dose 4 drops
Tank B 100g with 5 frags dose 4 drops
Im sure both of this tank dont dose the correct amount for their tank.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I am curious how your matching your bacteria dose to your corals consumption when we have no idea how much corals are actually feeding on the bacteria. Also dosing extra is not going to be an issue so what’s the point in trying to find a “perfect” dose?

 

[SeaDweller]

Wow I am glad to see seadweller and big e still using gfo. I am not using it right now but I used to use it 24/7. It’s actually safe and easy to use if you have used it before. Or if you understand the do’s and dont’s of it and are going to test daily until your used to using it and observing the corals.
I am using vinegar and nitrate dosing to lower my po4 right now and I have been using this method ever since using a carbon source years ago. It’s my favorite method but I wouldn’t start using a carbon source just to try it. I would use gfo first.
I am still using reef bugs and rebiotic once a week but have cut back a little bit now that my corals have started to grow. I do not plan on using it for an extended period of time because I don’t believe it’s needed. I am not even sure it has helped but I want to believe it has. Corals could have bounced back given the amount of time i let things sit for. But again it has been a year since the tank change and stuff never did well until recently, but I also added four or2 bars so that could have been a big part of it even though I am running radiums as my main lights.

Yup, I switched from HC GFO to Rowaphos and I have no problems with my tank. it helps me keep po4 in check.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I am curious how your matching your bacteria dose to your corals consumption when we have no idea how much corals are actually feeding on the bacteria. Also dosing extra is not going to be an issue so what’s the point in trying to find a “perfect” dose?

Yes, how do we know how much to dose/feed bacteria if the purpose is to feed corals with it? Maybe, dose until you get a bloom and then see how long it takes to subside?

Also, if they primarily feed on bacteria via slime coat, would using flatworm exit /stop (I forget which is which) to increase slime coat be a good idea?

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I had the same thoughts on using fws for that same purpose but was going to try wormwood alone to see if I got similar results. Fws defiantly helped the corals that were not affected by the worms when I used it.