Why don't people run higher temps? (another rant lol)

[Scooter90254]

A few years back I had a controller fail and ran a tank 72 degrees for who knows how long (Months) and literally couldn't tell the difference.

So who knows.....

 

[Retro Reefer]

I have always noticed increased nuisance algae growth in warmer tanks.

 

[acro-ed]

I primarily keep acros, but have plenty of other corals as well. I keep my tanks between 76-79 depending on time of year. I have kept tanks as high as 82* years ago, but I have better colors at slightly lower temps. I do believe I would have better growth by staying in the 80-82 range.

A few days ago I had a mishap where my temperature controller probe came out of my garage tank and it was telling my heater to run when it shouldn't have. The tank ended up at 88* for at least a few hours. There were no negative indicators and that tank is a true mixed reef (acros, zoas, leathers, ricordeas, caulastrea, BTA's, acans, etc.). I then (irresponsibly) brought it back to the usual 78* over the course of about 6 hours. Again, no negative repercussions whatsoever.

-Ed

 

[DarkSky]

I then (irresponsibly) brought it back to the usual 78* over the course of about 6 hours. Again, no negative repercussions whatsoever.

I wouldn't stress about dropping your temps that quickly, shallow reefs fluctuate 10s of degrees in a single day!

 

[Fourstars]

I run mine at the temp I get in the basement in the middle of summer with the Lights on. 81 degrees.

 

[Billdogg]

I've been diving in many locations around the world. As mentioned already, the temperature of the ocean varies by location, time of year and even time of day.

I keep my DT at a steady 78 degrees for a couple reasons. First, lower overall energy use. Another good reason is increased oxygenation of the water. The cooler the water the more oxygen it can hold. Also, if the AC fails in the summer I have longer to react before things get too high. If the furnace fails in the winter, I've got a fireplace and kerosene heaters.

Is the life cycle of many parasites quickened by higher temps? Sure. That's why my QT when in use is at 82 until a few days before I move things to the DT when I start to lower it to 78.

Regardless of what temperature you choose to keep your tank at, stability is IMO the most important factor.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I'm sure there's a wider range that's tolerable than what we use for our reef tanks, but we're aiming for stability, so using a temperature that stays solid is what's preferable for livestock health. While I was gone on vacation, our AC went out (I live in southern California, and it was HOT). The tank got up to 93 degrees...the results were bad. I'm not saying my experience is the rule, but I do know from experience that large temperature swings upward can cause damage.

Another thing, is that the idea that marine parasites will be impacted by warmer water is (I believe) based primarily on research of freshwater ich which is often confused with cryptocaryon irritans (what we commonly and probably confusingly call "Ich" in our hobby). Research indicates that warmer water holds no impact on "marine ich." So, raising tank temperatures doesn't help. In fact, I'd suspect raising the temperature beyond normal levels is actually likely to have a negative impact based on the fact that higher temperatures mean lower oxygen levels for livestock...which is likely to lead to higher levels of stress and therefore lower immunity and (therefore) higher susceptibility to marine parasites and disease.

 

[hockeyhead019]

I was always under the impression that it leads to faster growth of any potential issues ie worms, parasites etc. So while your premise of the natural equivalents growing/living at a higher temp it is trickier to maintain in a smaller volume that we keep at home.

Like I said, that's just been my impression and like others have stated I've seen the swing from "keep it cool!" to "warm it up!" and back again lol

 

[SDK]

Another thing, is that the idea that marine parasites will be impacted by warmer water is (I believe) based primarily on research of freshwater ich which is often confused with cryptocaryon irritans (what we commonly and probably confusingly call "Ich" in our hobby). Research indicates that warmer water holds no impact on "marine ich." So, raising tank temperatures doesn't help. In fact, I'd suspect raising the temperature beyond normal levels is actually likely to have a negative impact based on the fact that higher temperatures mean lower oxygen levels for livestock...which is likely to lead to higher levels of stress and therefore lower immunity and (therefore) higher susceptibility to marine parasites and disease.

This, plus the following two additional points

I don't believe there is any benefit to speeding up a parasites' life cycle unless the tank is being run fallow.

In addition to lower levels of dissolved oxygen, the (theoretically) sped up life cycle should result in larger numbers of parasites appearing in a shorter time frame. These two things combined would most likely accelerate the rate of damage to the host, and give us less time to react effectively...

 

[eskymick]

Back in the day (10 to 15 years ago), lighting your reef with MH was the norm. To prevent large day to night temp swings, many reefers maintained their reefs in temps between 80F and 85F. I had never known it to be an issue.

 

[Adalius]

I guess I'd be concerned about what the added temperature does to the parasite reproductive cycles. Everything is metabolically faster, do they then reproduce faster as well? If so, that'd really negate any reason for doing this.

I've seen some parasite studies comparing temperature vs reproductive speed (not specific to the marine world, so maybe not applicable), but the general 'trend' is that there is an optimal temperature and from that point, the drop in reproduction as it gets cooler is dramatic, the drop as the temperature goes up less so (see photo). If that were to hold true for parasitic marine organisms, then you're actually better dropping your tank temperature to reduce their reproductive cycle rather than increasing temperature. Again, I haven't found any specific to marine parasites so I don't know if this holds true, but for many of the studies I have seen, this graph shape is pretty common.

 

[Brew12]

Corals in the wild it says live in temps between 78 and 90 degrees and they can tolerate temps up to 104 degrees. Now I'm wondering how much the industry has been stuck to some pattern just because most of history probably doesn't account for variations in regions. If I don't want to keep Ricordeas because I don't like them, and they are more sensitive to higher temps, then why can't I stay away from things yanked out of Florida and run my temp a lot higher? It seems "universal rules" have been put into place to safeguard and protect thousands of different types of corals. The reason this bothers me is I have a tang QTd with ich in my personal aquarium. Why? If the industry progressed wouldn't people be keeping their tanks at 82 or 84 degrees by now? Are we making it harder for parasites and certain algae to die off because a 40-year-old rule says people are supposed to keep their tank at 78-80?

For those that don't know with a lot of parasites higher temps speed up their life cycle so they die off faster. That's why I'm wondering if these rules are creating ideal environments for parasites more than they are fish.

I cranked my tank up last night and wanna see what happens.

According to Cheung (1997) optimal cryptocaryon irritans reproduction occurs at 86F although it stops at 98F.

More recent work by Wang (2017) shows there is little impact in reproduction rate between 72F and 90F in reproduction rate or survival rates of the parasite.

Looking at Amyloodinium Ocellatum studies by Paperna (1984) optimal temperatures range from 74F to 81F. Reproduction rates were slightly slowed between 81F and 86F and dropping off rapidly from there.

Putting this information together makes and I would surmise that a tank running at 82 to 84 degrees would have slightly slower reproduction rates of Marine Velvet but higher reproductive rates of Marine Ich. Based on this I don't see a measurable positive benefit related to parasites unless you can get tank temperatures over 90F. I don't see that as worth the other issues it could cause.

 

[ca1ore]

Yup, see no logic to the parasite argument and lots of it for lower O2. I shoot for 78/79 in the Winter and 80/81 in the Summer .... mostly as a way to reduce energy usage. Seems to make very little difference.

 

[FlyPenFly]

I would optimize for energy use.

If I wanted to optimize growth for SPS, if I have everything else nailed down, I would just run with raised alk/ca/mg levels because that's at least been somewhat proven by BRStv.

If I wanted to make hardier more heat tolerant coral, I would raise temperatures gradually up to 84F over a month.

I would be interested to know that if changing temperatures throughout a single day (say 4-5F) has some sort of metabolic benefit to corals.

 

[HotRocks]

I don't really have much to add to what @mdbannister and @Brew12 mentioned above.

My concern with elevated temperatures in a reef tank that is housing fish with a parasite affliction is the fact that the oxygen level will decrease significantly. These parasites invade the gills, which causes oxygen deprivation in the first place. So elevated temperatures will just exacerbate the overall issue. Especially if the fish are left in the elevated environment the parasites will still cycle.

If you are treating the fish for the affliction a lower temp is ideal (I use 76f on QTs) as the meds consume oxygen so the more available for the fish the better. As well as additional means of aeration of the water at the surface.

 

[oldfishman]

I run my reef normally 79.4 but it may fluctuate between 79 and 81.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm sure there's a wider range that's tolerable than what we use for our reef tanks, but we're aiming for stability, so using a temperature that stays solid is what's preferable for livestock health. While I was gone on vacation, our AC went out (I live in southern California, and it was HOT). The tank got up to 93 degrees...the results were bad. I'm not saying my experience is the rule, but I do know from experience that large temperature swings upward can cause damage.

Another thing, is that the idea that marine parasites will be impacted by warmer water is (I believe) based primarily on research of freshwater ich which is often confused with cryptocaryon irritans (what we commonly and probably confusingly call "Ich" in our hobby). Research indicates that warmer water holds no impact on "marine ich." So, raising tank temperatures doesn't help. In fact, I'd suspect raising the temperature beyond normal levels is actually likely to have a negative impact based on the fact that higher temperatures mean lower oxygen levels for livestock...which is likely to lead to higher levels of stress and therefore lower immunity and (therefore) higher susceptibility to marine parasites and disease.

This, plus the following two additional points

I don't believe there is any benefit to speeding up a parasites' life cycle unless the tank is being run fallow.

In addition to lower levels of dissolved oxygen, the (theoretically) sped up life cycle should result in larger numbers of parasites appearing in a shorter time frame. These two things combined would most likely accelerate the rate of damage to the host, and give us less time to react effectively...

I don't really have much to add to what @mdbannister and @Brew12 mentioned above.

My concern with elevated temperatures in a reef tank that is housing fish with a parasite affliction is the fact that the oxygen level will decrease significantly. These parasites invade the gills, which causes oxygen deprivation in the first place. So elevated temperatures will just exacerbate the overall issue. Especially if the fish are left in the elevated environment the parasites will still cycle.

If you are treating the fish for the affliction a lower temp is ideal (I use 76f on QTs) as the meds consume oxygen so the more available for the fish the better. As well as additional means of aeration of the water at the surface.

I’m just here to agree with every word posted in these three posts.

 

[Sean Fitz]

I know that for cold water fish, like koi and goldfish, the warmer the water the faster the rate of metabolism. Meaning they eat more food and create more waste, which obv degrades water quality in a contained environment.

 

[ccombs]

Old school quartiner here. I run a "QT" tank at 1.020 salinity and 84 degrees. No meds.

If something does crop up on the fish in the holding tank, then I medicate.

I have honestly only had one breakout of anything in all my years and that was a bunch of breeding clowns got wiped out. Sent them off to Auburn for a post mortem and they could find nothing out of the ordinary.

What is involved in sending them to a facility for post mortem??

 

[BornHandy]

In my experience, higher temps leads to more frequent battles with nuisance algae at best. At worst, more rapid decline of health when a problem eventually appears. I have been out of the game for a while, but when I was in (early 2000's), metal halides were king, canopies were common, and heat was the enemy. Most of the "successful" tanks had chillers, and I saw many reefers running as low as 74! The general consensus was slower growth of everything, and more time to catch problems.