Why is my SPS peeling and turning white??
- Thread starter Breakthecycle2
- Start date
- Tagged users None
So, misshandle or a sting or a hermit scratch could explain why some sps just mysteriously get this kind of infection, right? This is why fragging is the only reliable way to stop rtn and stn.
Really seems eye opening to me.
I was considering dosing carbon before, now I won't. I have a few corals that have mysteriously began to stn. I also see hermits crawling on them at night. Could definitely explain what's happening since all parameters are in check.
Would cutting around the infected area suffice rather than a full blown fragging? Seems that fragging a frag could just make it worse.
Would cutting around the infected area suffice rather than a full blown fragging? Seems that fragging a frag could just make it worse.
chefjpaul
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 3,278
- Reaction score
- 4,669
- Location
- South Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
chefjpaul
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 3,278
- Reaction score
- 4,669
- Location
- South Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
Your thoughts on bacteria "dosing" to balance the DOC additions whether intended or not.
Paul B. Has something going by adding natural organics to his reef.
chefjpaul
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 3,278
- Reaction score
- 4,669
- Location
- South Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
That second article i posted above spoke about it.
For us we have-
Triton, prodibio, zeovit. Etc
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
Staff member
Super Moderator
Excellence Award
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
FWIW, I've not seen any evidence that dissolved organics in general are likely to be the cause here, but it might be, just like a lot of unknown factors might be the cause. Unfortunately, tracking down the cause of such issues can often be difficult and often not accomplished.
Last edited:
That's what is hardest for me to swallow about this hobby.... Who knows what's the matter when our parameters are in line with established guidelines.
I guess hypothesizing that elevated levels of DOC are to blame, and working to remove them, might be a sound direction forward.
I have stable, as far as I know, parameters yet a few cases of stn here and there. I am unable to find pests that could cause this but have seen stings and hermits happen.
I've got a newish bottle of microbater7 I can try. I did notice that my corals were happy back when I used to dose it. I stopped awhile ago and my corals paled out and have been sickly. I upped my feeding thinking it was lack of nutrients and then stn broke out.
Matt
stn occurs with a coral that is not happy ime. now there could be some microbe that eats on sps that makes them stn or rtn but i have not seen it. take aefw for example. they will feed on acros like heck, but ive never seen one stn or rtn from them. maybe someone else can tell me they have.
i HAVE seen it from water that isnt ideal or changes that occur that surprise your coral. i believe my corals can die of a heart attack if parameters swing. you gotta treat these lil old ladies right. and their environment better be predictable or their pace makers give out.
this is just my experience.
and a new tank...is NOT predictable
i HAVE seen it from water that isnt ideal or changes that occur that surprise your coral. i believe my corals can die of a heart attack if parameters swing. you gotta treat these lil old ladies right. and their environment better be predictable or their pace makers give out.
this is just my experience.
and a new tank...is NOT predictable
twilliard
Tank pests..
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2015
- Messages
- 10,333
- Reaction score
- 9,516
- Location
- Central Washington
- What state or country do you live in
- Washington
Lets talk more on DOC's
I like to call it "dead on contact" lol
So many aquarists spend so much time trying to beat down no3 and po4.
But how many threads have you seen posted that deals strictly with DOC's
Kinda weird hu?
Hey guys how many of you can smell your tank?
Pollutants to me is what will keep coral so unhappy that they just give up regardless of any other testing or methods used.
So why is the coral getting rid of its tissues?? Its dying
I like to call it "dead on contact" lol
So many aquarists spend so much time trying to beat down no3 and po4.
But how many threads have you seen posted that deals strictly with DOC's
Kinda weird hu?
Hey guys how many of you can smell your tank?
Pollutants to me is what will keep coral so unhappy that they just give up regardless of any other testing or methods used.
So why is the coral getting rid of its tissues?? Its dying
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
Staff member
Super Moderator
Excellence Award
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
Lets talk more on DOC's
I like to call it "dead on contact" lol
So many aquarists spend so much time trying to beat down no3 and po4.
But how many threads have you seen posted that deals strictly with DOC's
Those are threads about skimmers, GAC, and things like Purigen, since that is how we generally deal with DOC's.
FWIW, I discuss it here:
Organic Compounds in the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.htm
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
Staff member
Super Moderator
Excellence Award
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
FWIW, here are a couple of articles that compare reef aquarium organics to natural ocean reef organics:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3/
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2
Several of the tanks they studied had total organic levels similar to reefs (typically those using some sort of organic export, such as GAC or skimming), but some were higher (mostly those without organic export).
That all said, TOC (total organic carbon) says nothing about what the organics actually are.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3/
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2
Several of the tanks they studied had total organic levels similar to reefs (typically those using some sort of organic export, such as GAC or skimming), but some were higher (mostly those without organic export).
That all said, TOC (total organic carbon) says nothing about what the organics actually are.
twilliard
Tank pests..
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2015
- Messages
- 10,333
- Reaction score
- 9,516
- Location
- Central Washington
- What state or country do you live in
- Washington
Thank you Randy
But more or less I was stating that people drown themselves in answers to a problem but don't think of the whole picture.
So besides you, Randy, how many threads have been started with DOC's as a culprit.
Such an overlooked subject when it comes to poor coral or tank health.
Hey guys do you see that layer on top of the water? Mainly in your slow surface currents of your sump or tank. What is it?
But more or less I was stating that people drown themselves in answers to a problem but don't think of the whole picture.
So besides you, Randy, how many threads have been started with DOC's as a culprit.
Such an overlooked subject when it comes to poor coral or tank health.
Hey guys do you see that layer on top of the water? Mainly in your slow surface currents of your sump or tank. What is it?
chefjpaul
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 3,278
- Reaction score
- 4,669
- Location
- South Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
Randy, what is you consensus on DOC & efficient enough amounts of bacteria in aquarium?
From you links / articles,
I'm beginning to believe that many tanks pushing low nutrients, heavy skimming or not, are not competing fully with DOC's as we may not have enough "strains"
Like an infection without medication.
We are polluting our tanks via ourselves & the black top hat from the air maybe only having a "constant" level of bacteria, not being able to munch on DOC / inorganic nutrients leading to less calcification to stn / rtn.
Meaning not enough varieties due to too much export of nutrients while striving for a sterile tank afraid of algae.
Do you think maybe lacking a diversified community?
Here is a bit I'm trying to look into more this evening as well.
(From above link):
4-year time period. In addition, using a suite of culture-independent measures of bacterial community structure, we found consistent differentiation of reef bacterioplankton communities from those offshore or in a nearby embayment across all taxonomic levels. Reef habitats were enriched in Gamma-, Delta-, and Betaproteobacteria, Bacteriodetes, Actinobacteria and Firmicutes. Specific bacterial phylotypes, including members of the SAR11, SAR116, Flavobacteria, and Synechococcus clades, exhibited clear gradients in relative abundance among nearshore habitats. Our observations indicate that this reef system removes oceanic DOC and exerts selective pressures on bacterioplankton community structure on timescales approximating reef water residence times, observations which are notable both because fringing reefs do not exhibit long residence times (unlike those characteristic of atoll lagoons) and because oceanic DOC is generally recalcitrant to degradation by ambient microbial assemblages. Our findings thus have interesting implications for the role of oceanic DOM and bacterioplankton in the ecology and metabolism of reef ecosystems.
From you links / articles,
I'm beginning to believe that many tanks pushing low nutrients, heavy skimming or not, are not competing fully with DOC's as we may not have enough "strains"
Like an infection without medication.
We are polluting our tanks via ourselves & the black top hat from the air maybe only having a "constant" level of bacteria, not being able to munch on DOC / inorganic nutrients leading to less calcification to stn / rtn.
Meaning not enough varieties due to too much export of nutrients while striving for a sterile tank afraid of algae.
Do you think maybe lacking a diversified community?
Here is a bit I'm trying to look into more this evening as well.
(From above link):
4-year time period. In addition, using a suite of culture-independent measures of bacterial community structure, we found consistent differentiation of reef bacterioplankton communities from those offshore or in a nearby embayment across all taxonomic levels. Reef habitats were enriched in Gamma-, Delta-, and Betaproteobacteria, Bacteriodetes, Actinobacteria and Firmicutes. Specific bacterial phylotypes, including members of the SAR11, SAR116, Flavobacteria, and Synechococcus clades, exhibited clear gradients in relative abundance among nearshore habitats. Our observations indicate that this reef system removes oceanic DOC and exerts selective pressures on bacterioplankton community structure on timescales approximating reef water residence times, observations which are notable both because fringing reefs do not exhibit long residence times (unlike those characteristic of atoll lagoons) and because oceanic DOC is generally recalcitrant to degradation by ambient microbial assemblages. Our findings thus have interesting implications for the role of oceanic DOM and bacterioplankton in the ecology and metabolism of reef ecosystems.
twilliard
Tank pests..
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2015
- Messages
- 10,333
- Reaction score
- 9,516
- Location
- Central Washington
- What state or country do you live in
- Washington
I agree with you.
We push and push for the "no3 po4" topic that so much more is overlooked.
Ok so DOC's are ridden by carbon, skimming, chemical methods and so on.
Define efficient skimming. Define the exhaustion of carbon. Pollution is so overlooked.
Can you test your DOC levels with today's readily available kits??
I go by looks and smell
