WHY I'VE STOPPED USING INSTANT OCEAN IN MY REEF

[Dom274]

Yes
What it really comes down to is there is a consistency/predictability with this salt, I never achieved before.

Don't listen to the IO fanboys. I've been saying the same thing about TM for several years now. I've heard all the arguments before, and since I don't get a commission for selling TM salt, I have no desire to prove it to the masses (Kudos to you though). TM salt requires me to do far less supplemental dosing, which in turn greatly reduces the equipment and maintenance I see people "needing" simply because they use cheap salt. In fact, my new build that I'm working on will be implementing an AWC system, since I am a firm believer that this is superior to trying to dose everything.

 

[Mkus]

I have a friend who recently last year finally setup a 320 reef tank and it’s thriving not surviving!
His secret is continuous small water changes everyday he has a 50 gal tank with pre made water not sure on how much a day he does but his tank looks is one of the nicest reefs I’ve seen in a home!!
He never doses a thing!
And the tank is completely Automated

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

TM salt requires me to do far less supplemental dosing, which in turn greatly reduces the equipment and maintenance I see people "needing" simply because they use cheap salt. In fact, my new build that I'm working on will be implementing an AWC system, since I am a firm believer that this is superior to trying to dose everything.

What sort of supplemental dosing are you referring to? Trace elements or the big 3?

 

[dieselkeeper]

I used Tropic Marin Pro about 5 years back. Loved it. SPS dominate tank did great. Until it started have Alk at 5.2. Lost some colonies because it always mixed where I wanted it. What are you guys testing Alk at on a freshly mixed salt water?

 

[Sea MunnKey]

In my opinion everyone has their own personal preferences in synthetic salt products. Some swear by this and that ... as for myself what really matters is evidenced by how my corals and livestocks are all thriving and alive. It has come to a "salty" stage that being more expensive and/or termed as "popular" brand doesn't cut it for me considering with what I've been using all these years has proven itself. Started with IO salt since 2004 ... tried different products and didn't see any impact results based on what other reefers swore on ... still with IO salt regardless.

I hardly check my water parameters anymore as I do a weekly maintenance & 15% water changes regimen. Daily visual check up on my system first thing in the morning and when I'm back from work. ;Cyclops

 

[David S]

Your chances of finding a mix as consistent as Instant Ocean are very slim but I understand what you're getting at; if it's easier for you and that results in spending more time enjoying a tank full of healthy inhabitants, nothing else really matters.

I agree
I have enough things to check.
At least now I don't have quite as much to check

 

[madweazl]

What sort of supplemental dosing are you referring to? Trace elements or the big 3?

Unicorn tears, fairy dust, and dragons breath...

 

[saltyhog]

1. Excessive fluctuations in alkalinity and calcium
2. Ultra High Lithium levels which may be the result of IO salt mix.
The alkalinity and calcium fluctuations have all been eliminated since switching to Tropic Marin.
As far as the Li levels; I'll have a better idea when I have my water retested

One simple reason for that (I don't know what your new salt mixes to) is that IO mixes to a much higher alkalinity and calcium than where you are trying to keep your tank. I switched from IO because every time I did a water change my alkalinity would spike a little.

With two part dosing via a dosing pump(by Apex for me) keeping alkalinity and calcium is pretty easy as long as you are at a stable state in the tank. I would choose the salt mix that most closely approximates the levels of alkalinity and calcium that you wish to maintain.

 

[David S]

Too many variables to condemn the salt, without any sort of “control” in this situation. Like someone else mentioned.. unless you send in a fresh mix to Triton and have it analyzed.

I'm not condemning any of the salts. They all have their place.
I was getting great results using IO but I had to make too many adjustments to my dosing regimen.
For my circumstances IO was not right.
If I were using a Calcium Reactor to dose, I'd probably still be using IO.

 

[madweazl]

I'm not condemning any of the salts. They all have their place.
I was getting great results using IO but I had to make too many adjustments to my dosing regimen.
For my circumstances IO was not right.
If I were using a Calcium Reactor to dose, I'd probably still be using IO.

It wasn't a matter of IO not being right or appropriate, it was a matter of user error. Your issue initially stemmed from rising alkalinity; it was increasing with your water changes so you reduced the dose. You also reduced the calcium dose (to match the equal consumption rate) but forgot to account for the additional alkalinity making its way into the tank via the water change. This resulted in lower than desired calcium levels over time. Had the additional alkalinity from the salt been accounted for, the alkalinity dose would have decreased (to compensate for the salt) and the calcium dose would have remained constant as the salt mixes within your desired range. Equal consumption doesn't imply equal dosing.

 

[David S]

I used Tropic Marin Pro about 5 years back. Loved it. SPS dominate tank did great. Until it started have Alk at 5.2. Lost some colonies because it always mixed where I wanted it. What are you guys testing Alk at on a freshly mixed salt water?

When I first got the Tropic Marin Salt I tested a fresh batch against a fresh batch of IO.
After comparing, I felt this was not going to work.
I don't recall exact numbers but the Alk on the IO was bit higher, which was expected. However, I expected a pronounced difference in terms of elevated levels of CA & MG in the TM salt.
As best I recall, there was not much of a difference.
Yet adding this salt to my tank seems to have added stability with regards to dosing.
Can't say why, I'm just happy

 

[David S]

One simple reason for that (I don't know what your new salt mixes to) is that IO mixes to a much higher alkalinity and calcium than where you are trying to keep your tank. I switched from IO because every time I did a water change my alkalinity would spike a little.

With two part dosing via a dosing pump(by Apex for me) keeping alkalinity and calcium is pretty easy as long as you are at a stable state in the tank. I would choose the salt mix that most closely approximates the levels of alkalinity and calcium that you wish to maintain.

As I replied to Dieselkeeper, I checked the TM salts primary parameters against IO's and was not impressed. Yet, when this salt goes into my tank good things are happening (so far, anyway.lol)

Regarding dosing: I use a doser for Kalk overnight (as replacement water, as well). But my 2 part is dumped in the water. Sometimes I extend the time between the 2 parts, but I don't use a doser. Perhaps using a doser through the day would have provided added stability.
However, I'm dosing the 2 part the same way with the Tropic marin and there have been no dosing issues.

 

[David S]

It wasn't a matter of IO not being right or appropriate, it was a matter of user error. Your issue initially stemmed from rising alkalinity; it was increasing with your water changes so you reduced the dose. You also reduced the calcium dose (to match the equal consumption rate) but forgot to account for the additional alkalinity making its way into the tank via the water change. This resulted in lower than desired calcium levels over time. Had the additional alkalinity from the salt been accounted for, the alkalinity dose would have decreased (to compensate for the salt) and the calcium dose would have remained constant as the salt mixes within your desired range. Equal consumption doesn't imply equal dosing.

In all honesty, my problems were a bit more than rising alkalinity. Sometimes it was deficient and the Calcium would be too much. In other words my Alk/Calcium would be all over the place, although the majority of the times, it was a Calcium deficiency.
As far as user error; well if that's the case I'd say I'm in good company, as a respected person in the reefing community had very similar issues using 2 part.
Coincidentally, he was and still is using IO. He simply stopped using 2 part and switched to a Calcium Reactor.

I'd gladly post a link to the Youtube video, but I don't know if that violates any Reef2Reef policies.

 

[madweazl]

In all honesty, my problems were a bit more than rising alkalinity. Sometimes it was deficient and the Calcium would be too much. In other words my Alk/Calcium would be all over the place, although the majority of the times, it was a Calcium deficiency.
As far as user error; well if that's the case I'd say I'm in good company, as a respected person in the reefing community had very similar issues using 2 part.
Coincidentally, he was and still is using IO. He simply stopped using 2 part and switched to a Calcium Reactor.

I'd gladly post a link to the Youtube video, but I don't know if that violates any Reef2Reef policies.

I'm well respected by my dog but don't have any issues dosing two part with IO. There are more people using IO than any other salt and likely more than the rest combined so a few people were able to figure it out If the video relates to the hobby and isn't vulgar, I don't know what the issue would be.

 

[David S]

I'm well respected by my dog but don't have any issues dosing two part with IO. There are more people using IO than any other salt and likely more than the rest combined so a few people were able to figure it out If the video relates to the hobby and isn't vulgar, I don't know what the issue would be.

OK here it is
It's pretty interesting video, which you may have seen already.
if you want to cut to the chase you can move ahead to the 37th or 38th minute.

 

[madweazl]

Hadn't seen that one yet, thanks for posting it. While he does mention that he was using more alkalinity than calcium with a two part solution prior to moving to a calcium reactor [and eliminating two part altogether], I didn't notice anything related to your issue. One statement I did find interesting was something to the affect of a natural rise and fall of alkalinity from night to day (around the 41 minute mark I believe); I don't know exactly what he is referencing here but I'm not aware of a natural rise and fall in regard to alkalinity.

I don't want to make this seem like I'm picking at you or being condescending; I just want to find a logical reason for the issue you experienced.

 

[David S]

Hadn't seen that one yet, thanks for posting it. While he does mention that he was using more alkalinity than calcium with a two part solution prior to moving to a calcium reactor [and eliminating two part altogether], I didn't notice anything related to your issue. One statement I did find interesting was something to the affect of a natural rise and fall of alkalinity from night to day (around the 41 minute mark I believe); I don't know exactly what he is referencing here but I'm not aware of a natural rise and fall in regard to alkalinity.

I don't want to make this seem like I'm picking at you or being condescending; I just want to find a logical reason for the issue you experienced.

My original motivation for switching from IO was to get a salt that was "fortified" particularly in Calcium just to experiment with, to see if it might improve my dosing.
I chose TM because when I read reviews of various salt mixes, there were really no negative reviews of it, except maybe the price lol.
Of course, when I noticed that Triton recommended the salt, that was it- I was in.
Still, I had no bias regarding the product. Naturally, I wanted it to help me with my issue, but if it didn't, I would simply go back to IO.
In fact, I was not particularly impressed when I tested a fresh batch of this salt, but I've been using it for 2 months now and here are the differences, I see:

Prior to TM use, at least once a week I would have to dose additional Alkalinity or Calcium or both (Seachem). Since switching to TM, the Seachem products are history.
Sometimes, in order to balance my ALK/CA I would test my parameters 2 or 3 times a day. Since using TM, I've been testing 3 times a week.

It's funny when I think about it, the fact that I never considered a fortified salt before. I felt that I would have to dose anyway so why not go with IO which is a true and much tried product, that is also relatively inexpensive.

But seeing is believing and if your looking for a logical reason, maybe -just maybe - it's the salt

 

[kennedpa]

Don't care to spend the money on freshly made samples...yet.
However, your results for the two salt mixes were interesting. I don't know the levels of toxicity but more of a concern to me than the high LI levels for the ESV sample is the amount of lead.

Someone did this already on here. You can probably search and find it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've heard from enough people, now, who use IO salt that suggest my HI Lithium is not due to the salt. I guess, I'll have more of a clue when I retest. .

Now that I had other reasons to go back to some old data I had, the lithium may well be coming from calcium additives:

Aquarium Chemistry: Purity Of Calcium Chloride ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/3/chemistry

Lithium does not seem to pose as much of a toxicity concern as many other ions, but in three of the samples (Dow, Warner, ESV) it is greatly elevated. Over a year, each of these would add about 2 ppm lithium, or 12 times the natural level. Is that too much? I am not sure. In a prior analysis of artificial salt mixes, Craig Bingman found that two salt mixes started out with greatly elevated lithium levels (90X over natural levels for Coralife and 6X for Seachem, with the others ranging from 1.5X - 3.1X). Typical aquaria surveyed by Ron Shimek contained about 0.6 ppm of lithium (3X over natural seawater) with a range from 0.015 ppm (0.08X) - 7 ppm (39 X).

It is well known that excess lithium has significant adverse effects of the development of sea urchin embryos,1,2 and many studies have been carried out in this area. The amount of lithium used in those studies, however, is typically around 500-3,000 ppm. It has also been shown that 345 ppm of lithium will result in death of the isopod limnoria.3

So while 2 ppm lithium delivered by these samples is greatly increased over the natural levels of 0.18 ppm, it is still small compared to the hundreds of ppm required to show toxic effects. Given that gap, and the fact that the lithium levels will likely be attenuated by water changes, I conclude that the lithium in these calcium chloride samples is not an excessive risk. Nevertheless, that is something that each aquarist can decide for themselves.

 

[five.five-six]

Craig Bingman

Now that’s a name I haven’t heard since my old days of message boards on prodigy ISP. Super helpful guy, is he still around?