Why only 30 days of copper?

[Borgie234]

Question, why do people say 30 days of copper is suffice when you have to wait 72 day minimum for a fallow period. To my understanding copper only kills ich during it's free swimming stage. And the longest stage in ichs life is during the toment stage. I ask because I just had to take all the fish out of my DT for the second time in a year. Would really like to get it right this time lol. Also using cuppermine with a hannah checker to ensure I maintain levels.

 

[MERKEY]

Copper doesn't kill ich.

30 days out runs ichs life cycle.

Copper is a shield for the fish during the 30 days.

Fallow for 76 will eradicate all ich and velvet because there are no fish to feed on.

 

[Borgie234]

Copper doesn't kill ich.

30 days out runs ichs life cycle.

Copper is a shield for the fish during the 30 days.

Fallow for 76 will eradicate all ich and velvet because there are no fish to feed on.

This is the first time i have heard copper doesn't kill ich. How are you suppose to observe them after treatment is done without having another qt tank then?

 

[MERKEY]

To do it properly and how its documented you need at least 1 more tank for that exact purpose. An observation tank. For 2 weeks observe and make sure they dont have any thing. Watch for white poop and head flashes.

Also using the TTM tank transfer method is recommended during this process.

I'm terrible at linking threads but do a search here for TTM and it will come up

 

[MERKEY]

I ended up with 4 new Quarentine and hospital tanks....1 for each step and 1 for transfers.

And I still dont feel I did it right HAHAHAH

 

[Borgie234]

To do it properly and how its documented you need at least 1 more tank for that exact purpose. An observation tank. For 2 weeks observe and make sure they dont have any thing. Watch for white poop and head flashes.

Also using the TTM tank transfer method is recommended during this process.

I'm terrible at linking threads but do a search here for TTM and it will come up

well that's not gonna be possible for me as I have them all in a 180 gallon qt tank atm... not gonna be able to convince the wife for a 3rd big tank

 

[Borgie234]

well that's not gonna be possible for me as I have them all in a 180 gallon qt tank atm... not gonna be able to convince the wife for a 3rd big tank, I understand stand the TTM method but it's kinda hard to do when you have to qt all your fish due to an ich outbreak

 

[MERKEY]

well that's not gonna be possible for me as I have them all in a 180 gallon qt tank atm... not gonna be able to convince the wife for a 3rd big tank

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok so leave them in the copper for 35 days and the tank should be good.

Then put charcoal or whatever you favorite chemical filtration is and pull out the copper. There are chemicals made as well that remove metals and things from your water that you can use. The point is to remove all copper from the tank while they are still in it. Then observe them in there for at least 2 weeks. If done right they shouldn't show signs. If they start showing signs then copper again....

 

[MERKEY]

You dont want the copper to drop even .01 as ich will reattach to the fish during the process. So you want to add copper to your mixed water before adding it to the tank so it is already at therapeutic level.

 

[Borgie234]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok so leave them in the copper for 35 days and the tank should be good.

Then put charcoal or whatever you favorite chemical filtration is and pull out the copper. There are chemicals made as well that remove metals and things from your water that you can use. The point is to remove all copper from the tank while they are still in it. Then observe them in there for at least 2 weeks. If done right they shouldn't show signs. If they start showing signs then copper again....

Are you sure copper does not kill ich? check this article out https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-long-does-copper-take-to-kill-ich.304608/

but Iam still not understanding why 35 days is enough when ich is only free swimming for 24-48 hours during is life cycle and the fallow period time is 72 days

 

[Ling_Thing]

Copper doesn't kill ich.

30 days out runs ichs life cycle.

Copper is a shield for the fish during the 30 days.

Fallow for 76 will eradicate all ich and velvet because there are no fish to feed on.

Uhhh who told you copper doesn’t kill ich? Copper kills all Protozoa parasites including velvet. It takes 30 days because that is
How long the incubation stage of the egg stage takes in marine ich. Copper won’t kill the embryo inside the egg but only once it hatches and within hours it’s rendered dead being exposed to copper.

 

[C. Eymann]

Are you sure copper does not kill ich? check this article out https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-long-does-copper-take-to-kill-ich.304608/

but Iam still not understanding why 35 days is enough when ich is only free swimming for 24-48 hours during is life cycle and the fallow period time is 72 days

It will only be effective in killing theront, protomont stages, it is not effective at killing tomonts (cysts) on substrates.
Some argue that copper may not even be effective at parasites actively infecting the fish.

I prefer using chloroquine phosphate in conjunction with TTM for both active ich and velvet infestations. It can be hard to come by though.

 

[Borgie234]

Uhhh who told you copper doesn’t kill ich? Copper kills all Protozoa parasites including velvet. It takes 30 days because that is
How long the incubation stage of the egg stage takes in marine ich. Copper won’t kill the embryo inside the egg but only once it hatches and within hours it’s rendered dead being exposed to copper.

so will copper kill ich at all the other 3 stages of ich life cycle? I was under the impression it only killed it will it was free swimming

 

[MERKEY]

Uhhh who told you copper doesn’t kill ich? Copper kills all Protozoa parasites including velvet. It takes 30 days because that is
How long the incubation stage of the egg stage takes in marine ich. Copper won’t kill the embryo inside the egg but only once it hatches and within hours it’s rendered dead being exposed to copper.

So many stages and why I said it wont kill it.

It will only be effective in killing theront, protomont stages, it is not effective at killing tomonts (cysts) on substrates.
Some argue that copper may not even be effective at parasites actively infecting the fish.

I prefer using chloroquine phosphate in conjunction with TTM for both active ich and velvet infestations. It can be hard to come by though.

Thank you for adding this.

 

[MERKEY]

so will copper kill ich at all the other 3 stages of ich life cycle? I was under the impression it only killed it will it was free swimming

So many stages

 

[C. Eymann]

So many stages

+1 , also to complicate it more, the cysts (tomonts) dont all burst /release theronts all at the same time, so many different "generations" or stages of lifecycle can be present in the tank at the same time it can be very staggered.

If copper killed ich regardless of life cycle stage, then theoretically a 24hr QT in a therapeutic level copper system would be sufficient for ich prevention/treatment, we aren't that lucky unfortunately.

 

[MERKEY]

+1 , also to complicate it more, the cysts (tomonts) dont all burst /release theronts all at the same time, so many different "generations" or stages of lifecycle can be present in the tank at the same time it can be very staggered.

If copper killed ich regardless of life cycle stage, then theoretically a 24hr QT in a therapeutic level copper system would be sufficient for ich prevention/treatment, we aren't that lucky unfortunately.

This is exactly why I just started with "copper doesnt kill ich" I should have been much clearer to the OP on stages.

I really am glad we have so many wonderful members who help each other!!

 

[Borgie234]

+1 , also to complicate it more, the cysts (tomonts) dont all burst /release theronts all at the same time, so many different "generations" or stages of lifecycle can be present in the tank at the same time it can be very staggered.

If copper killed ich regardless of life cycle stage, then theoretically a 24hr QT in a therapeutic level copper system would be sufficient for ich prevention/treatment, we aren't that lucky unfortunately.

that's kinda of my point so why isn't practice when using copper to treat for 72 days?

 

[MERKEY]

I'm going to research how to link threads.

Humblefish has already done so much research on this.

It's only 14 days in copper if using TTM

30 days if not and his research states why.

I will learn how to link his thread.

If you do a quick search on this site for ich treatment or TTM humblefishes research will be one of the first. And it is what I'm trying to say but in scientific terms and correctly.

 

[MERKEY]

Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Ich eradication vs. Ich management The purpose of this article is to discuss the pros & cons of ich eradication and ich management, and present the best methods for implementing each. Ich eradication - Simply put, this method means doing everything possible to keep ich out of your tank. That...

www.reef2reef.com

Here is a thread showing eradication vs. Management

Within this thread there are more links you can get deeper if you choose.