Why so hard?

[SlugSnorter]

If you feel like that then I assume you may have an inferiority complex.

I gotta say I hate the “he is just lucky” sentiment though. If I’ve been at this for almost 20 years at what point can my style of reefing be considered valid and not lucky lol?

I never said it wasn't valid in the slightest, I'm saying that issues can occur within the hobby, and while live rock can help, not everyone has easy access to it, or is aware of it when starting. the hobby is not easy for many. numerous issues can occur, even with careful planning and practice (and good liverock), I find it annoying to undermine those who have and have had issues or difficulty with their tanks.

I don't think anyone is arguing against liverock helping tanks, In fact I agree it really helps. But It is annoying when people pin all issues on "you have no liverock"

 

[SlugSnorter]

I'm


I definitely have a problem with the techniques and styles that the reefing industry is pushing onto people in an attempt to make a ton of money off them. People need to know that there’s an easier, less expensive way. I definitely do not have a problem with people who took on poor advice from the Industry which led to disastrous tanks and ppl quitting.

I agree with this, tanks should have at least a bit of liverock when starting.

 

[nereefpat]

I think a lot of new people believe the only way to run a tank is like a WWC acro super technical build. They think you need to spend a ton of money on crazy equipment and that you need to dose all sorts of chemicals and constantly run a QT tank for everything that goes into your reef. That style of complicated and high maintenance reef is great and provides a very beautiful tank for those patient and diligent enough to care for one.

Judging by the amount of threads on here titled something a long the lines of “I’m about the quit the hobby” because of maintenance issues, algae issues, disease, etc. I think it’s important that people out there know that there is an easier, basically fool proof way to have a beautiful tank that’s super easy to look after.

The marketing, specifically for tech and additives, for the reef hobby has really gone overboard the last 10 years or so. The influencers, youtube, BRS investigates, etc; a lot of it is advertisement disguised as information.

Some of it is necessary so that companies can sell stuff and stay in business while innovating new stuff. I would argue that, sometimes, what's good for businesses isn't necessarily good for hobbyists. Apparently, a lot of reefers are 'tech' people, and they like new generations of things and playing around with new tech, and they like to tinker, and that's okay. I like to just turn my T5 lights on and off with a light timer, while some people like LEDs that ramp and change spectrum. I like to mix up kalk in a bucket, while some people like to have a stirrer/reactor.

SPS reefs do require additional testing, equipment, and effort.

Quarantining is a different debate for me.

 

[SlugSnorter]

`I use the holistic natural fully mechanized technologically complex simple approach myself.

 

[Sump Crab]

I never said it wasn't valid in the slightest, I'm saying that issues can occur within the hobby, and while live rock can help, not everyone has easy access to it, or is aware of it when starting. the hobby is not easy for many. numerous issues can occur, even with careful planning and practice (and good liverock), I find it annoying to undermine those who have and have had issues or difficulty with their tanks.

I don't think anyone is arguing against liverock helping tanks, In fact I agree it really helps. But It is annoying when people pin all issues on "you have no liverock"

Ultimately almost all the info on here is anecdotal at best. My personal anecdotal experience has led me to believe that a tank started with real ocean rock or mature rock from a mature tank leads to quick success. If anyone else has a different experience I cannot really comment on that. All I can do is state my personal experience.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Ultimately almost all the info on here is anecdotal at best. My personal anecdotal experience has led me to believe that a tank started with real ocean rock or mature rock from a mature tank leads to quick success. If anyone else has a different experience I cannot really comment on that. All I can do is state my personal experience.

did you read what I said? I said that using liverock is helpful but doesn't guarantee success. There are many issues that can arise in the hobby, quite a number of them unrelated to having liverock or not.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Do not attempt to insult me here. NOBODY with any prior knowledge of me will buy it. Apparently, your limited perspicacity does not allow you to comprehend when someone is attempting to acknowledge your veiwpoint and further validate it with their own experience.

this guy does not seem to be able to actually have a discussion. Whenever he encounters anything he doesn't have an argument against, he just kinda spits out some half done pre-schooler insult

 

[Nano sapiens]

In response to the title of this thread, as is true in much of reef keeping, 'It depends', comes to mind.

From what I've observed over the last two decades or so especially is a growing tendency for beginning reef keepers to jump right into attempting an Acropora dominated aquarium. Without having successfully kept less demanding coral this is rather difficult, to say the least. Same can be said for a true 'Mixed Reef', especially in a small body of water.

Another trend that will typically add difficulty for the novice is a single minded focus on collecting all these fancy named corals without due attention/understanding of the aquarium as an ecosystem that needs time to develop and stabilize ('mature'). Similar to the concept that building a house without a proper foundation just won't work out well.

When you've been at this for a long time, you come to the realization that the simplest and easiest setup (that meets the requirements of the particular animals being kept) is typically the best one.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I usually ignore when this gets so crazy, but today I will throw in 2 cents...

What I gather the OP is intending from the posts is that a reef does not have to be a difficult thing to keep. Using the live rock and easier corals, it can be kept fairly simply without too much effort.

What I think most of the people who encounter this posting is seeing is someone that is lucky, bragging, set in one approach and not understanding new comers.

What I think is that we are all right in some sense. Setting up a tank with no prior knowledge of reef keeping is overwhelming. Image knowing very little about the hobby... Just thinking of water parameters (what are those, how many?), lights (PAR? spectrum?time?), flow (what is that, tidal, random, linear, how calculate), sump (what is this), that is before we even talk about animals.

IT is A LOT!

Once you get the fundamentals of the reef ecosystem and nitrogen cycle and needs of animals, then you can set up a pretty easy system to run. I can set up a tank and have it set from day one no problem. But, I have been doing this for almost 20 years. Not 1 month.

You can also challenge yourself and set up systems that are on the edge and reaching. These will not be easy and require a huge amount of knowledge, ingenuity, patience and determination.

So, can it be easy, yes. Is it always easy, no.

 

[Hermie]

Is it because they are constantly trying to prop up a broken ecosystem due to their anti “pest” protocols?

That's what happened to me, and I did not have enough snails (or peppermint shrimp to eat aiptasia).

 

[X-37B]

Easy/hard is relative. What some find easy others find hard.
In my 30+ years of reefing most failures are because tanks are started without a plan. A plan requires the knowledge to implement said plan.
Imo, this is why it becomes so hard for beginners to be successful.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

^ I had to learn all this. Buy books. Ect.
I learned cycling. Didn't learn it wouldn't kill animals. Lol.
This thread is entertaining if anything.
D

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Skipping the whole back and forth that’s going on my two cents (or öre since I’m Swedish hehe) is that after 20 years I can most definitely say that it’s not HARD to keep a thriving reef tank but there are factors that can make it challenging. These are often tied to lack of knowledge, laziness, other limitations (financial, time constraints etc) or bad luck.

First of, anything will be difficult if you lack the required knowledge to do something properly…that covers basically all of us in the beginning of our journey.

Laziness/lack of time: is it hard to keep perfect parameters in every way? Not really but it will require a lot of work (I don’t btw).
Is it hard to deal with every single problem as soon as it appears? Not really (I don’t btw) etc etc

Is it hard to have the best flow, lighting, filtration etc possible? Not really but you might not have the funds.

The biggest contributing factor to failure, in my opinion, is that people try to reach for something that circumstances won’t allow.

As an example: the most challenging tank I can think of would be a ULN, BB acro tank with extremely powerful led lighting, started with dead rock.
It isn’t hard to have one of those tanks, there is a formula to be followed for success, but it will require extreme diligence in every way to avoid disaster which will require knowledge, time, effort and a fair bit of money.

Oh and live rock is the bomb haha

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Skipping the whole back and forth that’s going on my two cents (or öre since I’m Swedish hehe) is that after 20 years I can most definitely say that it’s not HARD to keep a thriving reef tank but there are factors that can make it challenging. These are often tied to lack of knowledge, laziness, other limitations (financial, time constraints etc) or bad luck.

First of, anything will be difficult if you lack the required knowledge to do something properly…that covers basically all of us in the beginning of our journey.

Laziness/lack of time: is it hard to keep perfect parameters in every way? Not really but it will require a lot of work (I don’t btw).
Is it hard to deal with every single problem as soon as it appears? Not really (I don’t btw) etc etc

Is it hard to have the best flow, lighting, filtration etc possible? Not really but you might not have the funds.

The biggest contributing factor to failure, in my opinion, is that people try to reach for something that circumstances won’t allow.

As an example: the most challenging tank I can think of would be a ULN, BB acro tank with extremely powerful led lighting, started with dead rock.
It isn’t hard to have one of those tanks, there is a formula to be followed for success, but it will require extreme diligence in every way to avoid disaster which will require knowledge, time, effort and a fair bit of money.

Oh and live rock is the bomb haha

Yeah I agree, just OP made it sound like the only thing you need is live rock and you should never encounter problems because it's universally easy

 

[SlugSnorter]

Yeah I agree, just OP made it sound like the only thing you need is live rock and you should never encounter problems because it's universally easy

If your heater fails just throw some live rock on it.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If your heater fails just throw some live rock on it.

Why do so many people have hard lives? To live all you need is food, water, and oxygen. I don't get it...

 

[SlugSnorter]

Its seems youre very pro live rock and pests looking at your other posts and see them as part of the ecosystem. For the most part id agree with you, my 15+year old 265g has aiptasia, bubble algae, invasive palys, and more. To be honest none of them have kept the reef from thriving. But you know what will? Nudibranchs, flatworms, bugs, etc. They will decimate colonies no matter what fish and inverts you have that eat pests. Ive dealt with montipora eating nudis, and ever since then everythings been quarantined. Losing all my 5-8 year old monti colonies one after another is quite painful and not something i want to go through again.

Live rock certainly makes things easier on start up and establishes a health biome very fast. I am by no means saying it doesnt work, but i certainly dont want to embrace any pests coming in. Ive setup tanks both with live rock and dry and both ways can be equally successful but dry does take more effort.

I believe most of the failures from new hobbyists come from rushing into things. Even with live rock if you are inexperienced you will most likely have difficultly keeping a thriving reef right off the bat. These hobbyists spend a ton of money of what their lfs tells them to, do everything theyre supposed to but throw coral and fish in immediately. Then when discouraged by the death of their new live stock thats usually when they come in here for help and saying this hobby is hard. And i would agree, compared to keeping other animals reefing is quite difficult.

exactly.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Why do so many people have hard lives? To live all you need is food, water, and oxygen. I don't get it...

yeah, and why don't all the starving people just go to the supermarket? I don't understand

 

[SlugSnorter]

Do you have any stony corals? What do you dose?

I don't think aiptasia is too picky about WCs.

 

[Sump Crab]

If your heater fails just throw some live rock on it.

I have a ink bird and apex to protect against that.

Ok slug, I got under your skin apparently! I get it, you think I’m awfully ignorant. It’s funny cause you said it’s me who has all the juvenile comebacks or cannot participate in constructive convo but I seem to see a lot of “funny” one liners being posted by you lol!